For Questions Regarding WOFs/CERTs/NUMBER PLATEs

[gibbon]

2 minutes ago, cletus said:

Sounds like made up shit to me

Let me guess

He also had a land rover with a 186 from a gtr torana that would get rubber in all gears and keep up with a GTHO 

his claims to fame were more based around crashing various bikes at improbable speed and walking away, but yeah I got the feeling he was a weaver of dodgy yarns 

[smokin'joe]

@cletus
with the new digital Cert doofa's that LVVTA are using, do these replace existing ali engraved plates at WOF ? or only when modifications are done outside scope of existing ?

have 2 certed Suzukis down south, that i havn't been WOF'ed for a long time, and ensuring there no dramas when they come home

[cletus]

So the old Ali engraved plates are still valid, if the car matches the description on the plate, mods are the same, then all good.

Any new certs after Feb 2021 I think it was? Will be the new EDP donut thing 

Any car with an Ali plate that gets re certed for anything other than wheels only, gets a new donut one when it's re certed 

[smokin'joe]

2 hours ago, cletus said:

So the old Ali engraved plates are still valid, if the car matches the description on the plate, mods are the same, then all good.

Any new certs after Feb 2021 I think it was? Will be the new EDP donut thing 

Any car with an Ali plate that gets re certed for anything other than wheels only, gets a new donut one when it's re certed 

one is for ute conversion, other for motor swap.

only issue could be wheels on ute, but will ensure correct fitment at the time

[xsspeed]

Clint I have been fluffing around a lot on the Z31, trying to establish a direction and get going.

I wanted to float this to see if there were red flags before taking any further

The Z31 rear trailing arm setup is a bit shit, S13s/14s/15s etc have multilink rear which is pretty sweet plus loads of aftermarket support

Some jokers over the years have figured out ways to get S13 subframes mounted, problem is most are in the states and seem a bit questionable in terms of quality, however the principle seems sound

The position the rear mounts of the S13 subframe want to be (apparently) align, front to back at least, with a factory mounting rail on the Z31. However the left and right S13 mounting points are more outboard. To make a mount the shape of the rail needs to be changed and a stud located for the mount.

Simple diagram below:

Pic (pre welding and pre installing of the stud) of the tidiest example I could find

 

And post welded/stud installed

 

So first question is for achieving these rear mount locations, is this welding in a wedge/cut and shut an accepable thing to do?

Second question is, as you can see here, you would then use coil over spring suspension for an S13, rather than the divorced spring and damper from Z31, using the existing damper tower. I think we talked about this once where one may need to strengthen the tower?

Next post for third question which might be the diciest part

[xsspeed]

The front mounts are a bit more of a trick, the s13 subframe is shorter, that Z31 so the Z31 mount points are further forward than the S13 subframe can reach

Can one, extend the subframe like so (with non shit welds?)

Standard subframe

Front mounts fall short of Z31 pin location

Cut front mounts/extended

Boxed up

 

Is there anyway to do this extension legitimately, any suggestions that might be better than this method?

Edit: a variation I have just realised this build used https://www.speedhunters.com/2021/05/project-z31-432-getting-technical/ suggests you can somehow chopping off the mounting points from the z31 subframe and attached them to the s13 subframe to get to the z31 mount position, cant see a good pic of the front mounts in link, I've asked the dude if he can share - can just see the s13 ends are cut and shut

 

[RXFORD]

30 minutes ago, xsspeed said:

The front mounts are a bit more of a trick, the s13 subframe is shorter, that Z31 so the Z31 mount points are further forward than the S13 subframe can reach

Can one, extend the subframe like so (with non shit welds?)

Standard subframe

Front mounts fall short of Z31 pin location

Cut front mounts/extended

Boxed up

 

Is there anyway to do this extension legitimately, any suggestions that might be better than this method?

 

If you have a reasonable budget for this conversion, another option might be to have a chat with Rob at RaceFab down in Chch.

He makes pretty wizzbang tubular/moly subframes and I'm sure he would have an s13 jig that could be tweaked to suit the z31 pickup points if you sent him a z31 jig to measure. This way it would make for a 'bolt-in' setup.

 

[RUNAMUCK]

A friend (who was an autistic z31 Barry) converted his to coil overs. 

I should ask him.if he has any pictures.

[xsspeed]

chur, feel free to spam my project thread (lol) thread rather than block up here

@RXFORD i had only half though of full fab as then potentially getting into custom spec everything, where the beauty so to speak of the s13 subframe is all the relatively inexpensive/easy to source aftermarket support. That said i guess if could still use the pickup points for control arms/hub etc then that would still be an option, just a bare subframe with less ropey mounting points - will ponder cheers

The other option is the just try and work with the trailing arm setup which is still kind of tempting from a cost point of view. Can do some eccentric bushes/bolts etc to get some level of adjustment when going lower

Stock is like this:

There is a kit that does this (cut and shut control arm and attach new mount points) which looks a bit sus maybe? Whats the legality of something along these lines?

Theres a US fabricator making these subframes which stay as trailing arm (but lose the spring perch). I've talked to clint about these and would need a design review in nz, plus apepars its all mig'd and in NZ expectation would be tig'd

Could possibly pinch some ideas from both and build a NZ spec trailing arm that allows some adjustability that still attaches to the Z31 subframe (and maybe keep divorced spring/damper setup)

[Nominal]

I liked your first idea the best.

[xsspeed]

I found a video that better explains the S13 subframe process 

 

[RXFORD]

I can't see why there would be any issues with extending the front subframe legs as long as the material isn't a fancy high strength steel and you match material thickness with suitable gussets/fishplates. It may be something you need to start mocking up and tack togethor, then take to your certifier or send pics to Lvvta to make recommendations on. Its just going to be hard for them to ok something unless you do a super detailed 3d model.

Same again for your plan for the rear mounts to the chassis. As long as the area where the stud is gets strengthened well so the load is spread to avoid cracking then it should be fine. 

The shock towers will definitely need reinforcing to be suitable for a coilover strut. Adding a 'strut brace' would help too whether its fixed in place or removeable. 

 

 

[xsspeed]

Chur, when you say strut brace are you meaning like a tower bar or something else? 

Another question sorry, from a starting point perspective, is it better to start with a (relatively) virgin subframe or would something thats had strengthening plates welded in be ok/of any value (have found a subframe that has these welded in already https://au.gktech.com/products/v2-s13-180sx-r32-gts-t-subframe-weld-in-reinforcement-plates)

Also some reasonable info on S chassis subframes here - stamped, welded mild steel construction is noted - https://blog.gktech.com/blog/s-chassis-rear-subframe-comparison/)

[cletus]

What you are talking about doing is all possible, and can be certed, @RXFORD has covered most issues,  I would add that you'd need to be careful of any arms fouling on the chassis, when you fit an irs in a car that wasn't designed for it, you need to run the suspension through its full range of travel to make sure things don't hit where they aren't meant to before the bump stops limit travel

The rear shock mounts will need strength added, a strut brace isn't enough on its own , it will need diagonal bracing as well but that's something I'd need to see in person to figure out the best plan

 

starting with a non modified subframe would be easier, as if you need to cut or mod a bit that's been strengthened that makes life harder

 

What is your main aim for doing this? Are you trying to get it really low? Going to do track stuff? There are options to sort out camber on the standard rear end that might make life easier if it's just going to be a street car

[mjrstar]

quick question for the WOF guys, im considering getting a wof on my trailer after quite some hiatus, and I recall some chit-chat about rego plate location and orientation.

 

i have a vertical mounted plate affixed the the r/h mudguard. i have searched and found that they need to be mounted upright ( which i believe means not laying flat) but nothing about horizontal is mentioned.

then "at the rear" like right at the back, or will i get a pass with it on the guard. 

So yeah just deciding if i need to relocate right to the back, (where it will get fucked because its a tilt trailer) and re-wire for a rego plate light or if its still ok as is. 

 

Cheers

 

[AllTorque]

The rule change that was coming got canned because was too hard. So, don’t panic & rock your plate how you want (as long as it has a light)

[R3spct]

Mine is on the guard and is on a 45 angle of the back surface of the guard.  If it was on the back of the trailer it would get taken out in no time is the trailer is only 70mm thick at that point. I think I bought it from a OS member about 12 to 14 years ago....

[sheepers]

WOF question,

can you have one of those spiral wound flexible cables wrapped around your steering column going to your steering wheel? 

[AllTorque]

I can’t see why not, as long as it can’t restrict the steering wheel movement.

[sheepers]

i thank you.