Bangbug Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Holy heck this is a developed thread. If you have a "pump" function dick with that first for sure. What sensors are you running now? (I see commie + airbox so I assume MAF?) TPS and MAP = winning. TPS is obviously immediate in response and MAP is pretty damn quick too, MAF can be fine but they'll always lag behind the other two.So if you have a TPS make sure your "pump" is in relation to that and not the MAF, it's already to late by then. Commence flaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yeah it'll be a tps based enrichment. Guess I'm best to just start with small amounts and add a bit until it feels peppy without any hesitation. I don't think this setup suffers much from wall wetting as the tracts are very short straight runs through to the valves and the injectors are in a sweet spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbug Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Is it batch or sequential, sequential hardly ever suffers from wall wetting.I have batch but it's spraying onto the backs of the valves so it makes no difference. From memory they had a few "pump" enrichments for MS, does that still stand?Depending on rate of ∆ tps. (fast, slow, medium etc ∆)Transient throttle is tricky, I was actually looking at maths for a 5 point moving average before putting that something on hold and getting an atom I know I'm late but well done on your DIY EFI We're in the same boat probably, I did some DIY EFI on the b2200. Link + crank sensor + waste spark + FE3 etc. Goes really well, had it off the clock last night and that's without a highrpm tune in her yet! EFI ftw! I'd go large and bring it back for the enrichment. How's your logging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 anyone know where I can get one of these in nz? I got one for coolant but need another for air intake temp, or are there other better suited sensors? http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-closed-element-clt-iat-sensor-with-connector-p-115.html FYI mid 90's Audi' A4's run an exposed element (photos in my mazda thread) which are pretty common these days, and have a nice simple mounting pad plus a nice spring clip Bosch connector. Probably pretty well suited for turbo, but will confirm once I get into some road tuning.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Is it batch or sequential, sequential hardly ever suffers from wall wetting. It's generally reccomended that injectors run at maximum of about an 80% duty cycle at full load, but on a 4 stroke engine the intake valves are open less than 1/4 of the time. So sequential injection is more about making it run nice at low load I guess. Regarding accelleration enrichment. I guess if a consequence of the accelleration enrichment being wrong is the engine bogging, then perhaps you could test it by datalogging the TPS/rpms/vehicle speed on a flat straight road, get the car going at a consistent speed and engine load then floor it. Then make some changes, and do the same again. Look at the graphs and see if the initial accelleration moves closer or further from the point where your TPS gets whacked wide open. Although not sure if MS has datalogging with enough resolution to show that well enough. But just an idea... It's hard to quantify improvements with the butt dyno alone! I think I'll have another look into setting up MS or Link over the summer time. Missing out on the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbug Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Don't worry to much about the flat road though it makes the instances easier to spot Use megalog viewer, graphs are the quickest and easiest way to spot what's going on. Just had a quick look at MS website, they have a nice bout of info on "how to".Now we want some screen grabs of how you went about it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 It's generally reccomended that injectors run at maximum of about an 80% duty cycle at full load, but on a 4 stroke engine the intake valves are open less than 1/4 of the time. So sequential injection is more about making it run nice at low load I guess. This is generally true for the stuff we are playing with. But the trend for newer shit is higher fuel pressures, fancy injectors with better response times (and better drivers) to the point where full sequential is actually firing at valve openings even at high revs. Lots of race car classes only allow one injector (which they run up in the intake trumpet) and properly timed sequential injection for them is imperative. I read in race car engineering some classes were running 30-40 bar fuel pressures with intake injection now days, but usually it is regulated lower. /useless rant haha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Yeah I guess also the higher the pressure you run, the more cooling you get from the pressure drop / state change too. I guess most EFI systems run at that cross over point between high enough pressure for injectors to have a nice spray pattern but not giving the fuel pump too much of a hard time. (Or causing horrific exposions haha) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbug Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Yeah I guess also the higher the pressure you run, the more cooling you get from the pressure drop / state change too. Buh? If both a low pressure and a high pressure fuel evapd to vapour then the lower pressure one would absorb more energy as it wouldn't have been pumped so hard (which adds heat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Yeah when you pressurize the fuel, (pumping it initially) it adds heat. When you decompress the fuel, (The injector nozzle spraying into intake) it loses the same amount of heat in reverse as the pressure drops. So if you add a cooler in the middle, you end up with a lower temperature than what you started with. Any of the setups running super high pressures would have a fuel cooler before it gets to the rail. It's the same as how CRC or whatever sprays out cold from a pressurized can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbug Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I know this isn't the place and we're sort of jacking it but...... It's not the same as CRC, the cooling effect is the propellant which is gas at 1 atm is phase changing back to gas from liquid which is as you've previously said a phase change. So you've compressed it, it's bled out its heat over time and now it's "taking it back yo!" because compressed things are thugs. The CRC is at the same temperature that you sprayed it out of the can if you can keep it from giving its energy to the gas. (well unless you can measure the 0.0000002% so essentially the same). So that's a rather big change, but if gasoline is a liquid it won't compress much at all... since it's a liquid. And since that's what would be described as the work done in this model it would be a tiny amount of work so therefore a tiny amount of heat energy returning to the liquid assuming it had been cooled in the first place down to what would be the equivalent of the regular FI pressure (apples with apples). I'd say high pressure efi is warmer than low pressure efi or at the least the same after a cooler. (friction from pumping = heat). Well that's my 2 cents anyway, any fluid dynamics dynamos on here? /deviationfromthreadapoligies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 accel enrich. if its off. just turn it on. often the default settings are ballpark. then just mess with it till throttle response is best, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 I'll give that^ a go first Yeah its batch injection. The original mazda ecu ran it sequential but i was happy for a first go at all this to just run it batch. Certainly in the future or on next car we do MS on I will try sequential. Dave- my seat of pants driving feel thingee should pick up a change for what I want hopefully. Its pretty quick and not at all boggy for most of the driving but could be better. Would love to see if there was a difference by doing it all on a dyno but lack of pingas for that shit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingbrick Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 If you have a "pump" function dick Wow I had to read this about 5 times to figure out conclusively that you weren't talking about a dick pump 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbug Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 If you have a "pump" function dick with that first for sure. Come on, quote the sentence at least, sounds like I'm calling him a dick otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 When I tweaked the accel enrichment on this Fiat engine I just started at something low and slowly increased the value until it got good, and once it got bad I went back a bit. Aaaaaaallllll good. That was on a V5 link which is much more basic than what the MS2 offers, but it works sweet regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0R10N Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 When I tweaked the accel enrichment on this Fiat engine I just started at something low and slowly increased the value until it got good, and once it got bad I went back a bit. Aaaaaaallllll good. That was on a V5 link which is much more basic than what the MS2 offers, but it works sweet regardless. Did you also change the enrichment pulse width? I found that made the most difference on my V5. One thing I can't fathom is how the cold start values all work. I'll get there one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark105 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 When we were doing AE on the skyline you could see it lean out on the wide band when you stabbed the throttle so we just tweaked the AE up till it didn't lean out and it has been happy as larry ever since. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 the MS2/microsquirt has four points/rates. did you just move them all up nthe same amount type thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark105 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'd have to double check as I'm using an MS1. But yes that rings a bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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