yoeddynz Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 My turn... My innovate Mtx L wideband has started going all crazy. Car started fine as usual but after the initial htr display as the sensor heats up the gauge just showed 22.4. It has done this once in a while but normally starts displaying a normal reading after a couple of minutes however this time its stayed playing up going all over the place. I have turned EGO correct off and the engine runs fine, idles fine and drives fine but I want my pretty numbers back! I have checked the earths, re calibrated it in free air and still sits on 22.2 or flicks about. Please see this rather exciting video I took.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDfzfk8984c&list=UUGKvDrc7wmDePaqJXIclOsw So I am now thinking it might need a new sensor? But maybe there is something else to try first? Something I have missed. How long do these bosch wideband sensors last- this one is about 3-4 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0R10N Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Yay, wideband woes. I feel your pain Alex. If Logworks also reports the same as what your gauge reads, my pick would be dodgy O2 sensor. Paul had a similar fault when tuning the track car a while back. Started getting really lean spikes, then the output value pegged at 22. He switched out for a new sensor and kept going, it was fine after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downtrail Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Yep looks like a new sensor will be required. they are quite senstive to advesre conditions normally seen during tuning ie too rich. too hot etc really kills there life span. Another thing is to always make sure the controller is running whilst the sensor is in the exhaust stream they dont like thermal shock and rely souly on the controler to maintain sensor temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0R10N Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Question for thread - can a dodgy relay inhibit current to a wideband controller (specifically the O2 sensor itself)? I also used a couple of those standard grade automotive plugs (the kind that look like Ts) to make it easier to plug the wideband into the TX3, are those known for any form of current drop also? I'm going to nip out at lunchtime to grab a new relay and some other connectors, but essentially what is happening is that the wideband works when no sensor is attached, but as soon as you plug one in it starts flashing the green status light once every two seconds and refuses to respond. Tested on workbench connected directly to a 12V source and it all worked fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Relay is just a contact point/switch so it shouldn't hurt. But they can get burnt out contacts etc. Ditch the relay anyway its silly, wire it up of any old fused 12V you can find. Apart from the heater they don't use much power. Like 2 amps on the heater then about .2amps in running mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I just wire up a weather pack of the +12v on the ciggy lighter to all the cars I have used mine on (mates cars too). If the car needs a tune you plug in the power/ground weather pack, remove bung in firewall and run the senor wires through and off you go. No need to over complicate things unless its going to live in the car, which fucks the sensor anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 likely its dead or dying... although I would suggest a clean and a couple of back to back free air cal's with it removed from the exhaust (of course) for a start on that wideband problem. I get this on my LC1 occasionally when it has not been used for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0R10N Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Cheers Spenno, will probably just go the cigarette adapter route. I thought the sensors were designed for long term permanent installs, or is that just for cars/ECUs that rely on closed loop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteretep Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I think wide bands last about 20,000km typically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The sensors we buy for cheap are not going to last that long. Super simple explanation but they are basically a narrow band o2 sensor with a "pump" that keeps the narrow band in stoich, from how much you pump you can work out the mixture. There is a finite amount of material on the pump and once its done its done. Some nicer/flash cars have them factory but you can bet that sensor is a better unit with a longer life expectancy. Oh and Ed I don't use a ciggy adapter but that would work fine. I just jack into the ciggy lighter wiring and install a weather pack connector under the glove box somewhere out of the way. Usually old cars though, there is probably a more elegant solution on a newer car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I can't see why you would want to run it full time on a road car. For sure run one on your race car if its data logging, but otherwise just bang it in every 6 months or when you make a change. Otherwise just burning out sensors for the sake of something you shouldn't be looking at while driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downtrail Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Cheers Spenno, will probably just go the cigarette adapter route. I thought the sensors were designed for long term permanent installs, or is that just for cars/ECUs that rely on closed loop? They are in factory form. the innovate controllers arn't the flashest and temp control isn't the greatest but they are good for tuning. also alot of installs ive seen have the sensor too cloose to the turbo exit. half a meter down from rear of turbo is a good start for them to last longer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downtrail Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The ls4.2 sensor thats supplied with most innovate products is a factory sensor for a vw golf gti and can see upto and excede 100000km's with proper temp control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Plus don't have it powered on when the car isn't running. You want the sensor to be cold when you start the car so if any condensation hits it when you start the car from cold, it doesn't crack the sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The ls4.2 sensor thats supplied with most innovate products is a factory sensor for a vw golf gti and can see upto and excede 100000km's with proper temp control. There you go! so its the cheap controllers fault for killing sensors early. Plus I guess we run them while tuning so rich/lean as fuck which has to drop their lifespan more than punting around on a golf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0R10N Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Oh and Ed I don't use a ciggy adapter but that would work fine. I just jack into the ciggy lighter wiring and install a weather pack connector under the glove box somewhere out of the way. Usually old cars though, there is probably a more elegant solution on a newer car. Weatherpack was what I was considering picking up today actually, to replace the yuck T-shaped ones I originally bought. Either way should be fairly easy to sort, cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Hopefully you get it sorted easy man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downtrail Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 There you go! so its the cheap controllers fault for killing sensors early. Plus I guess we run them while tuning so rich/lean as fuck which has to drop their lifespan more than punting around on a golf. Yup thats it! that and they are easily over heated if too close to turbo exit etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Is this a factory sensor on any type of car that anyone knows? http://www.nzefi.com/product/bosch-fast-response-iat-sensor-turbo-na/ dont know but seems pricey http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-open-element-iat-sensor-with-pigtail-p-62.html even with shipping is probably half the price. you might be able to find something at pickapart/zebra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Regarding 02 sensor longevity - In the manual for my LC2 it says:Naturally Aspriated Daily Driver:-Calibrate before install of new sensorCalibrate new sensor again after 3 months of useThereafter calibrate once a year or every 20,000 miles, which ever comes firstWhich would seem to imply it's not unreasonable to expect it to last longer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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