Roman's 4GR V6 Carina discussion thread

[cletus]

23 hours ago, Roman said:

The axle tramp this car had on semi slicks or street tyres was insane, the shock loading on the drivetrain must have been intense.
I am 100% convinced that squishy drag tyres do less damage to drivetrain than axle tramp.

The echo as well, on semi slicks it felt like the car was ripping itself to pieces. 
On drag slicks it just felt like a CVT, but the wheels were spinning instead of gearbox guts.

I'm not too worried about breaking stuff. If it breaks it breaks.

One annoying thing.
I'm just looking to get some clarification around tech inspection requirements.
It seems that ethrottle is banned for drag racing tech rules unless it's factory fitted. 
So that might prevent me from passing a tech inspection. 

Are you planning on going faster than 11.0? Or do you want to avoid wof/reg but still run at street car events?

[Roman]

2 hours ago, cletus said:

Are you planning on going faster than 11.0? Or do you want to avoid wof/reg but still run at street car events?

I'm wanting to go through cert process again, but it's unlikely I'll have everything sorted by December.
I was hoping to go through a tech inspection so I can make it to OS drags this year, if I can sort everything else out in time.
 

[Truenotch]

2 hours ago, shrike said:

I stand corrected good to know there is an option but gosh your right it's not a cheap exercise 

There's a few options to run DI now. They're all pricey, but it's good to have the option. 

[Roman]

4 hours ago, xsspeed said:

Romandayf I was pondering direct injection as I cant get 1urfse/2urfse's out of my head, what is the main reason you abandon the DI? Cos its a bitch or? 

Some very light reading suggests benefits mixture (efficiency and power) and Im sure something talked about charge cooling too, or is there really a need to run both DI and port injection that Im missing and so becomes a big faff?

Or is the main reason for looking at these toyota DI n/a engines because they typically have the higher compression as a starting point

Yeah the main appeal here was the high compression ratio, and aftermarket parts availability from the bigger engines.

I dont really have a choice though, even if I had an ECU capable of running it.
Because the aftermarket cams are only for the 2GRFE, and they do not have the DI fuel pump lobes on one of the cams. 
So all that stuff goes in the bin anyway. 

But the 2UR might be the same. And/or the ECUs of this era will be reflashable. 
I'm not sure how easy they would be to swap into another car with factory ECU though, and keep it happy with all of the bits that will be missing.

[Roman]

6 minutes ago, Truenotch said:

There's a few options to run DI now. They're all pricey, but it's good to have the option. 

On the front of this engine, there is a DI control box. 
It has inputs from the main ECU, and outputs to the injectors. 
I suspect it takes regular injector outputs, then beefs them up into the high voltage peak and hold setup for DI. 

So it might be possible to run that with a bit of homework, but for reasons above I've already biffed all that stuff anyway. 

[xsspeed]

oh yeah wouldnt be with factory ecu i wouldnt think, too many protections/interfaces with the body id have thought

didnt think of the cams from 2GR, but regardless seems like some voodoo controls from a non factory ecu (with enough outputs) needed

[Roman]

I downloaded the Link G5 software to see what features it has to control direct injection specifically. 

And, there's not really much different about it compared to normal injectors.
Just some features for controlling the high pressure fuel pumps (which will work differently based on manufacturer etc) 
and then apart from that, it was just setting up injector data as usual, and assigning them as DI injectors (which presumably puts the drivers in peak and hold mode)
However I also noticed there was an option you could select, to make the injector outputs work with the factory Toyota injector driver boxes.
There wasnt anything special regarding injector timing or anything else. A few extra features for blending port and DI injection if you were using both.

So I'd say it's probably still feasible to run it with a normal ECU that's got 8 injector outputs, so long as you connect to the box.
I'd test it here but I chucked that box away already.
The 2UR looks to run a box just the same. 
 

[GARDRB]

On 14/09/2023 at 08:45, Hyperblade said:

Another option is picking a caliper that lets you water jet cut a pad down from another common pad size, this is what I did with my rear AE86 disk setup, I just had wilwood polymatrix pads cut down to suit, $25 to cut down per pad, and once they have template it's easy as.

If your looking for long lasting brakes, bigger and thicker pads are what you want to go for, it helps them last a lot longer from the heat and just helps all the components around them.

 

 

A friend of mine who is a BMW barry (fitting coz his surname is Barrie) used to work on the Super Tourers when they were still a thing. He'd get the used pads off them and laser jet them down to use on a bunch of different cars coz even used they had more than enough material on them still.

 

The F-series in my Corolla came out of a crown from @sheepers and has the Altezza LSD in it. I've got s14 4 stud discs and ae92 fxgt calipers on mine. If I were to do it again I'd do an Estima diff, get it shortened and use Weir Performance axles http://www.weirperformance.com/axlekitscompleterear.html coz my axles are redrilled from 5x114 to 4x114 and I'd like the bigger bearings. 

The Daddy Motorworks (GR Yaris powered) ae86 uses a Carina/Corona housing with Altezza LSD, the Estima disc/drum brakes and Endless handbrake shoes. 

[sheepers]

Did it?

Shit I don't remember that......

[Honda Ass Dragger]

TBH the G5X is a bit of a disappointment

It still requires driver boxes for DI - where as a Motec doesn't

 

 

[GARDRB]

1 hour ago, sheepers said:

Did it?

Shit I don't remember that......

Yeah 518 weeks ago

[Hyperblade]

4 hours ago, Honda Ass Dragger said:

TBH the G5X is a bit of a disappointment

It still requires driver boxes for DI - where as a Motec doesn't

Yeah and for the price you don't even get a PDM built in. On the flip side at least g4x maps transfer over and plug a and b are same as g4x series so easy upgrade. But a bit underwhelming tbh.

[Roman]

Yeah I guess it only really makes sense if you wanted to run a fully sequential V12, or a V8 with fully staged injection. 

But even so, at that price point might not even make sense compared to other options.

 

[flyingbrick]

Hey man.

Absolute pleasure being able to contribute something (the printing) to one of your projects- especially since you have provided so much inspiration over the years with your printer!

[mjrstar]

For your firewall material I had McLeod sheet metals in the tron cut me a bit and roll some beads into it, went hard for what it is/was.

[tortron]

Coming along nice

 

[xsspeed]

Whats your oil volume gunna be now, ballpark? Any starvation concerns?

[Roman]

I think it'll be around 5 litres to fill it. 

Yes since it's a non standard setup it's definitely a possibility that it might have some issues. 

Main concern is that there's way less room under the windage tray/crank compared to factory setup. 
So I'm not sure how well the oil will flow back to the sump. 

But again, just one of those situations where just need to fit an oil pressure sensor and monitor it. 
Have some good alarms on it. 

[AllTorque]

Can you wangle in an oil cooler for bonus capacity?

Keep up the good work.

[mjrstar]

3 minutes ago, AllTorque said:

Can you wangle in a dry sump for bonus capacity?

Keep up the good work.