Roman's 4GR V6 Carina discussion thread

[Roman]

Thanks @Rhyscar could be keen to borrow that some time.

[Roman]

Ive got some dash 10 bulkhead fittings, could just have the nut do up from the bottom. Or have then upside down. Bit im thinking some type of shorter AN fitting that threads into the top of the pan probably the best.

Then underneath just two pipes.

Open to any suggestions.

I think straight drill through the front would clash with the pulley or belt.

 

[thegreatestben]

Unsure if it has the potential to do it but any concern of belt breaking or partially failing and ripping the fittings out or snapping them off?

[mjrstar]

I did weld on an male fittings for the oil system on the Mazda, which in my mind is more robust than a screw in.

They are pretty cheap too.

[Steelies]

Cool stuff roman. Hah 3cyl life, ish. Re exhaust collector I did just as you're planning, made from bends to match parallel primary tubes etc. welded those to primaries that were split off the head flange/eachother, reassembled and did inside the collector, and went from there. Also, I have unwanted new oil filter relocation parts if they're of any use in your future? 

[BlownCorona]

On 10/07/2023 at 17:07, Roman said:

Yeah i thought of that. But too much of a pain.

Although probably not an issue if the engine wont last the length of an oil change interval

this is literally the design philosophy behind 'lifetime oil'  (its not lifetime rated if you use the thing beyond the intended lifespan)

[Yowzer]

Run long primaries 6-1 for lols

[BiTurbo228]

On the exhaust merge collector front, my mate's Kawasaki ZZR1100 once had a terrible jangling noise from the exhaust for a while and then spat out a little twisted plate of stainless from the back of the exhaust. We think it was welded into the 2-1 merge part of the exhaust to better blend the transition. It looked like it was welded into the point that they merged where your red arrow is pointing, and then the free end was twisted slightly to impart some rotation to the gas.

No idea if it works or not, and it'd be more complicated on a 3-1 merge than a 2-1, but it was always a bloody fast bike...

I suppose the question would be whether a gradual taper down to a smaller diameter than the runners themselves is better or worse for flow than a sudden increase in diameter.

[Yowzer]

What if you were to make a merge from three bends, rather than straight? Model some graphs up of that eh

[BiTurbo228]

19 minutes ago, BiTurbo228 said:

On the exhaust merge collector front, my mate's Kawasaki ZZR1100 once had a terrible jangling noise from the exhaust for a while and then spat out a little twisted plate of stainless from the back of the exhaust. We think it was welded into the 2-1 merge part of the exhaust to better blend the transition. It looked like it was welded into the point that they merged where your red arrow is pointing, and then the free end was twisted slightly to impart some rotation to the gas.

No idea if it works or not, and it'd be more complicated on a 3-1 merge than a 2-1, but it was always a bloody fast bike...

I suppose the question would be whether a gradual taper down to a smaller diameter than the runners themselves is better or worse for flow than a sudden increase in diameter.

Perhaps something a little like this fabrication nightmare:

So your regular primary diameter, which expands into a gradual cone before it reaches the collector. At the collector there's a little plate that extends the merge (the longer it is, the narrower the jump in diameter but the narrower the exit), and then into the secondary.

Probably a very complicated way of making KPR's 'collector-into-narrow-into-gradual cone' design...

[Yowzer]

Why not get something 3D printed for maximum wanker points? Or is that gonna be way too many Ned$

[HumberSS]

For the collector I would just start, don't think too hard about it. Just chop 3 bits of pipe to roughly the merge you are aiming for. You can weld some from outside and some from inside. You will fuck the first one up, but it will give you a fair idea where to go from there... I pretty much did that, albeit slightly easier being 4 pipes, then panelbeated the end round over an anvil and trimmed back to get to secondary diameter. Give it a Hoon I say

[Roman]

Yeah metal 3d print is $$$$MegaNeds$$$.
I could likely get something CNCd for cheaper. 

Yeah for a 4-1 I've thought about adding that plate in the middle @BiTurbo228 but it's pretty tricky for a 3-1.
As with the 4-1, the benefit would come from using the plate to initially pair only 2 of the cyls together, and the other two. like this. With some fuckery you could probably get the change in cross sectional area to two fairly small bumps. 
 

However with 3-1 there's no way to divide them equally. 

 

[BiTurbo228]

Do you need to pair them as whole pipes? Could you merge 1.5 pipes together on each side then merge those two together afterwards...

[deankdx]

oil filter housing like this ?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/LS1-Oil-Filter-Adapter/1145906162?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101202994

 

[BiTurbo228]

Do you have to be concerned about bleeding air from the system? Mainly asking as it looks like a bit of an air trap popping down into the sump plate, up into the filter and then back down again.

Edit: on second thoughts, probably not. I had the lines for my X1/9 oil cooler loop up and over the engine before being connected to a cooler under the boot. Never seemed to have oiling issues.

[Roman]

Can prime it initially while the filter is off and syringe some oil down the inlet and outlet. But then after that it should hold all of the oil from the pump onwards when the motor is off. 

[keltik]

Got a seized Mazda 3 here with the older LF engine.  

Would that bolt on underneath your oil pan adaptor?

(The 2.3L L3 engine has the same filter housing but with an oil cooler opposite the filter pointing upwards).

[Truenotch]

12 hours ago, Roman said:

Yeah metal 3d print is $$$$MegaNeds$$$.
I could likely get something CNCd for cheaper. 

Yeah for a 4-1 I've thought about adding that plate in the middle @BiTurbo228 but it's pretty tricky for a 3-1.
As with the 4-1, the benefit would come from using the plate to initially pair only 2 of the cyls together, and the other two. like this. With some fuckery you could probably get the change in cross sectional area to two fairly small bumps. 
 

However with 3-1 there's no way to divide them equally. 

 

I'm pretty sure @Rhyscar added choke plates into his collectors for the 2ZZ. It's all in that 4 stroke tuning book, but dunno how to make it work for a 3cyl setup. 

[Rhyscar]

1 hour ago, Truenotch said:

I'm pretty sure @Rhyscar added choke plates into his collectors for the 2ZZ. It's all in that 4 stroke tuning book, but dunno how to make it work for a 3cyl setup. 

Yup thats right. Based on this. KPR might have some better info his collectors seem to follow a similar design. 

I'll pull the book out and take a look at the 6cyl stuff. Has been a while. 

 

Key bit to remember is that air has momentum so small differences in cross sectional area won't matter so much