Roman Posted March 9, 2021 Author Posted March 9, 2021 While the exchange rate is good I'm halfway tempted to chuck some JUN cams in it too... As it's a bitch to change them over later while the motor is in the car. But I'm also quite curious to see how well it will go just with factory 1NZ cams and ITB and the high comp. Definitely cams at some stage though. As I can buy a pair for cheaper than just one for 3S 3 Quote
Popular Post Roman Posted April 6, 2021 Author Popular Post Posted April 6, 2021 My new work car arrived, and it's by far the nicest car I've ever "owned". Some fun gimmicks like paddle shift, cruise control, decent power etc etc its a turbo deeez that goes hard 4 wot it iz It doesnt even rattle or anything. Amazing. Really nice on long work trips, which I do a lot of. However obviously the best part of all this, and why it's in this post. Is that this now means my Echo has been released from its daily driving obligations, so I can start on drivetrain swap soon. Time for a full blown big block fuck around! I've still got the engine in storage up at my Dads, but have collected most of the necessary other bits. Also because I am a financially reckless man-child I have also ordered some JUN cams, fuck you bank account 36 1 5 Quote
Popular Post Roman Posted April 15, 2021 Author Popular Post Posted April 15, 2021 Progress! Finally got my motor home, and have had a little bit of time to muck around with it. Still amazing how clean and new everything is. I decided the best first thing to do, would be swap the sump over. So I did that, with all of the necessary patience. Cleaned everything, piped out some silicone stuff, let the goo set, then flipped it back over and started on the valve train. I got the valves, old springs, and retainers out no problem. Trying to fit the new ones in, not so easy! Springs are much stiffer, and these retainer keepers are fucking infuriating! So tiny and dont want to sit in the right place. With one of my ham fisted efforts, I ended up dropping one of the keepers down an oil gallery... into the bloody sump. The half of the sump of course that means I have to pull the whole bloody thing off again. So pulled that back off, and after some various attempts I decided there's not really any way to do this short of taking the head off. So pulled the head off, and holy hecka the combustion chamber and pistons were absolutely coated in nasty nasty EGR shit! So gross. And this is only a 30,000km motor, they must look fucked by the time they get some big km on them. As these pistons are coated (apparently?) I decided to not use anything more volatile or abrasive than petrol and a toothbrush, and a toothpick to get some shit out of the tight parts. Came up good enough. Hopefully running it for a while without EGR will clean everything up a bit over time too. The combustion chamber looked just as gross. People say these motors gum up the piston rings, I can see why. Also, I had a laugh at this. On the left, we have a beams 3SGE flywheel bolt, for an 8 bolt crank. On the right, a 1NZ flyhweel bolt for a 6 bolt crank. Hopefully I wont have a 9k rpm flywheel come buzz saw through my brain 24 1 Quote
Yowzer Posted April 15, 2021 Posted April 15, 2021 Another reason for gunky combustion chamber is low tension piston rings. If you've got it that far apart it's probably worth reringing it with better rings 6 Quote
Roman Posted April 15, 2021 Author Posted April 15, 2021 Ahh good point! I wonder if regular 1nz ones will fit. Quote
Popular Post Roman Posted April 16, 2021 Author Popular Post Posted April 16, 2021 Figured out the EWP and got it working easy as. It's just 2 high current wires for 12v supply and earth. Then one is a pull to ground PWM signal to control pump speed. Then the other is a square wave pump speed signal which you can feed back to the ECU. (which is what I was hoping for) So you can tell if its jammed or stopped working before the motor overheats! Cool. It's got a failsafe so a high duty cycle on the pwm signal slows the pump down - So if there's no signal, it runs at full speed. Trying to work out the water line situation though, I'm not sure if there's a water bypass for if the thermostat is closed. What looks like a bypass hose also looks like a heater line. But if that's the case, no flow through heater core if the heater line is shut. There's also an extra heater sized water outlet on the exhaust side of the motor, which isnt there on the normal motor. Hmm. Might have to try find an engine manual that shows how it's supposed to go. Finally used my Aliexpress spec USB oscilloscope for something. I also got my head back from the engine shop with the new valve springs fitted, $75 saved me about 100 swear words and 10 hours so a good deal. Hopefully cams here on Monday. 19 Quote
keltik Posted April 17, 2021 Posted April 17, 2021 Missus has one of these so can happily look at bits you might need to figure out. They do run a heat exchanger in the exhaust after the cat 1 1 Quote
Popular Post Roman Posted April 19, 2021 Author Popular Post Posted April 19, 2021 I found a diagram, it looks like the water return is internal in the block rather than an external pipe like on 3S etc. So the two main external lines are just the heater circuit. However yes there's all sorts of complicated shit going on apart from just a heater! Cams arrived today, and it's bloody exciting - I've never had non standard cams in anything before. Since an Echo is basically a more modern iteration of a Starlet, I shall keep with the established nomenclature and call this a 3/4 race cam. I hope it goes hard for what it is. Not sure if these will work without pinging gilliez though. I need a set of feeler gauges to check the clearances to the buckets, then order new buckets if needed as these are shimless (Prius race car technology) They've got numbers on the underside of the bucket that tells you the thickness, so that's handy. So might be able to scab some from pick a part. I think it's safe to jizz the sump back on properly, as the only thing left that I could risk dropping down an oil gallery at this stage is a head bolt washer. (will quote myself later when I do exactly this) I've well and truly spent all of my car money for the month, so might be a few weeks till more progress. I need to get my 3d printer back in the shed so I can mock up some brackets for alternator and hopefully the PS pump too. If the PS pump isnt going to work, I'll get a single row accessory pulley from an NCP91 instead as it's presumably a little bit lighter. 16 Quote
tortron Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 Cover everything with a rag Then forget to take the rag out 4 3 Quote
ajg193 Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 What's the story with refacing the lifters/buckets on these when you get a new cam? Would it still be cost effective getting them from pick a part vs brand new once you pay to get second hand ones refaced (and result in the clearance changing)? Quote
Roman Posted April 19, 2021 Author Posted April 19, 2021 What do you mean by getting them refaced? Here's what I'm planning: Measure clearances, not them all down including the number on the buckets See if I can move them around to get as many as good as possible to spec find/buy the remaining bucket sizes I need. In the engine manual there's a look up table which says "If you have XYZ bucket, and you're out by this much, use number 32" or whatever Not planning on doing anything to the top face of the buckets. 1 Quote
ajg193 Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 I'm just thinking along the lines of the process of installing a fresh cam in other engines, they always say to regrind the lifters so the cam beds in properly without being wiped out.* *This is for OHV engines, no idea how it is for OHC stuff or if it even makes any difference in any situation 1 Quote
Yowzer Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 Modern cams don't bed. Look at the buckets, they are hardened and mirror smooth. They slip over the oils smooth as silk. 3 Quote
Roman Posted April 19, 2021 Author Posted April 19, 2021 41 minutes ago, sentra said: Does it not run hydraulic lifters? Nah you need to shim them to tolerance. So if the tolerance was good from factory AND the factory cam and aftermarket one had exact same clearances, theoretically I dont need to do anything at all. But I'm guessing that's unlikely. 2 Quote
Yowzer Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 It's interesting how a lot of modern engines have gone away from hydraulic lifters. Harder wearing surfaces, less thermal expansion and better oil technology means there's much less need for them. 3 Quote
Roman Posted April 19, 2021 Author Posted April 19, 2021 Maybe also improvements in automation for setting the valve clearances on day 1 I remember old mate Ken telling me about how he visited the Toyota factory in Australia. The block would come along, and a robotic probe would touch each of the valve stems (or whatever) then it would autopick the right bucket to suit the distance it measured. Like maybe as tech evolved it was just more economical to spend the money on the magic fingering machine, and less on parts for each engine (assuming hydraulic is more complicated, dunno) 6 Quote
ajg193 Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 A cursory glance on the internet indicates that there is significantly less load on modern buckets than the old ohv lifters. Bigger diameters, large contact patch etc coupled with lower valve train mass, supposedly less stiff springs and no rocker ratio. End result is just less wear, effectively eliminating need for self adjusting systems 2 Quote
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