Popular Post Roman Posted May 20, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 20, 2021 TOTP Noises 31 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted May 21, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2021 More shit news, because, reasons So it turns out that because these valve springs are so rediculously stiff compared to factory (double seat pressure) it overpowers the VVTI solenoid. And this is a reasonably known about issue, except for me because I'm stupid and didnt look into it first. So unless I swap springs again, to (unknown compatible spring) I'm stuck without cam advance which is super lame. And I need to take the head off to be able to change the springs, which basically means its a monstrous fuck around. So for the meantime will just get everything else sorted and try figure this out later. I bodged together some super shitty trumpets that were short enough to not hit the bonnet. Made a pretty wild difference around the 6000rpm mark (confirmed on fuel map too) And then this is where we are at since I started. Blue line is standard manifold 1300 motor Green line ITB 1300 motor Red line is new setup. So obviously there's a completely hideous amount of advantage to being able to rev higher thanks to the springs (well, and the cams of course) But I really need that VVTI working! I think ~124ish wheel horsepower isnt too bad of a starting place considering there are still a lot of non optimal things going on (shitty intake, shitty exhaust, and no vvt, no ignition timing tuned yet) 18 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Anyway to supercharge the VVTI solenoid and increase the pressure it sends? Ie block one of the return holes or make the hole going to the cam smaller to decrease the flow and increase the pressure? just thinking aloud so could be completely wrong. Can you increase the oil pump pressure so that the solenoid has more pressure? How much spring pressure can the current setup work with? how much would you need to increase the oil pressure to work with the stiffer springs? Hope this makes sense 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 Yeah, I hear ya! Shimming the oil pump pressure release valve is a possibility, but the oilpump is buried in the front timing cover. So its pretty much an engine out job to try that too. Well maybe not, but its a total wanker to get the timing cover off while it's in car. I think I'd just rather pull the motor out. It's also possible that the Aqua motor runs a slightly different oil pressure as they from factory run a 0w20 oil compared to 10w30 or whatever for a normal 1NZ I'll check part numbers and see if anything's different. But people with normal 1NZ have same problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Yeah a thicker oil could also increase pressure Again maybe map out what spring pressure a normal setup can manage and then how much additional pressure you'll need Is there an option to run an external oil feed to the solenoid that you can use to increase pressure (restriction or an external pump?) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 If others have run into this problem then surely someone has found a solution? Unless their solution was a vvti delete.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post keltik Posted May 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2021 VVTI delete and add lumpy idle to your repertoire of surprise. Bottom end is where the peasants live, just keep the tacho needle where eagles dare 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 If it doesn't need huge flow to operate I'm. Thinking maybe some form of additional oil pump too. Either mechanically driven or even better electric on demand. There will heaps of options for low pressure, (like trans /diff cooler on race car) probably less options for high pressure single state dry sump pump,but I reckon something would exist. Oil pump shimming - Ideally a heavier spring constant of the same free length is technically better than shimming depending on the seat arrangement. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashkellybarr Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Drill and tap block and feed vvt from power steering pump 300-400psi should be enough to over power the springs right? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Yowzer said: If others have run into this problem then surely someone has found a solution? Unless their solution was a vvti delete.. So it turns out if you use factory cams which have a less aggressive ramp rate, then the BC springs work. But then they run out of puff at high rpm.... So you need the big cams... Which will valve float without the springs, but cant use vvti with them. 2 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 Just now, Ashkellybarr said: Drill and tap block and feed vvt from power steering pump 300-400psi should be enough to over power the springs right? I converted to manual rack haha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 What about a custom made vvti solenoid with a bigger piston, instead of making heaps of oil pressure? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 I dont really know how they work, I assumed they just open a passage that then lets oil into the cam gear. But do they pump back and forth to push oil in? hmmm I need to do some homework Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Pretty sure vtec ones are a solenoid that changes the flow of an oil passage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kws Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Is there an uprated solenoid from a different toyota you could Lego into place? 1JZ or 4AGE or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, cletus said: What about a custom made vvti solenoid with a bigger piston, instead of making heaps of oil pressure? It's possible that I've merely stuffed the cam pulley when I put it together. With the beams 3SGE cam pulleys, they have a giant return spring in them. So if you have no oil pressure inside it, it returns to "home" position and stays there. These springs love to blow peoples faces off when they unbolt the front of the vvti pulley and bits go flying everywhere. Then they are impossible to get back together haha. This later style is much simpler. It doesnt have a spring, but it has a locking pin that will hold the cam in a fixed position when the motor stops. Then as soon as there is oil pressure in the cam again, locking pin released. It says you need to use compressed air to unlock that pin and advance the cam a bit, before you torque the bolt up. Otherwise the lock pin can break from the bolt trying to turn against the pulley. So its possible I've broken the lock pin and stuffed the pulley up. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 Could be it. https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/062010_04.pdf I'm not sure if I can troubleshoot this particularly well without taking the cams back out though. If I could manage to hold the chain in the right place I might be able to get the intake cam in/out without taking the front cover off. EDIT: Yeah could definitely be the issue Different engine but same thing https://www.allhead.com.au/technical/toyota-2az-fe-unlocking-vvt-phaser-hubs/ 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 Maybe its the gods of speed telling you to that you need a turbo to help with the lower rev ranges :p 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajg193 Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 I wonder if one of those vvti gears could be barried onto a 4k 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 hour ago, ajg193 said: I wonder if one of those vvti gears could be barried onto a 4k i was looking at my nissan engine and some images of the later GA engines with variable timing and it looks like it they literally just bodged it on the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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