For Questions Regarding WOFs/CERTs/NUMBER PLATEs

[cletus]

I too have a question...

Say I had my vehicle lowered. I take it in to get certed and it passes. A measurement is recorded from centre of hub to top of guard and stamped on the plate.

My question is, if I had (for arguments sake) 18" wheels on at the time of cert (which also gets stamped on the plate) and the vehicle was above 100mm, what happens if I decide to go to 13" wheels that brings the car lower then 100mm?

Basically a re-cert for the wheels?

Technically speaking you need to re-cert the vehicle for a change in wheel sizes. Certifier needs to assess that change in wheel size will not have detrimental effect on handling, braking or clearance to body or suspension components. Some certifiers will do these checks for a reduced charge for wheel change only, plus the cost of a Cert Plate Reprint.

It is also possible to have a vehicle certified for more than one wheel size, road wheels & drag wheels for example. That would need discussing with your certifier of choice

correct.

the 100mm rule goes out the window anyway if it is certed for being lowered and the measurements match the plate

[CaMpylobacter]

What are the legalities regarding deleting power steering? Can I just remove all the hoses and pump etc, and run a loop of hose betwen the two ports on the power rack?

need to fit a non power steer equivalent or have rack modified by reputable place to be non power steer- reason being there is a little `torsion bar' inside a power rack that operates the power assist valve- removing the pump ect causes stress on the torsion bar and eventually it can break

i'm running all power steer gear removed on my 205. the only thing anyone does more than blanking off the holes and removing the assist ram (it's a super archaic system that only makes a difference at low rpm and pparking situations for some reason) is to sometimes fit a pinion housing from a non p-a-s rack. they never alter teh pinion itself nor is it a two piece type like most others. do I need to prove this or do I need to change the little cover? once that's done, there's nothing different between pas and non pas racks aside from the ratio of pinion to rack gearing

[cletus]

I have a bit of a collection of questions, may not be your area if expertise (and i do plan on talking to a local cert guy prior to kicking any of the big stuff off)

I plan to lift my Brumby 3" is there any specific information/standards as to what is acceptable in terms of material and construction, and size of lift blocks?

So far it is my intention to lift the body off the front crossmember using 75x50 RHS with 5mm wall, will reuse the OE studs and nuts, and new equivalant size/grade bolts and nuts to attach the crossmember to the lift block

The gearbox mounts to a 2nd crossmember which is also the radius rod mount, this crossmember mounts to the body at 3 points each side, all on differing levels, I plan to space this only 2" either with 3 seperate solid steel blocks using longer bolts of equivalant grade to OE, or by making a box section that matches the contour of the floor and crossmember with crush tubes at the bolt points, this would obviously involve a lot more fabrication, but to my mind it will potentially deal with shear loading better.

The rear suspension is a torsion bar setup, that mounts to the body at 2 points either side, these i will treat the same as the gearbox crossmember mounts, either seperate solid blocks and longer bolts, or with a boxed sub assembly.

I'm also swapping the factory 4 speed for a 5 speed (that bolts in) the 5 speed comes with a 2 peice driveshaft, which as i understand will need a hoop within 150mm of the gearbox UJ and the centre bearing UJ.

The rest of the build is fairly straightforward, engine swap with adaptor plate and redrilled flywheel, taller tyres.

Does any of this ring any alarm bells? There are obviously braking repercussions to fitting taller tyres, metallic pads and good new parts should provide sufficient stopping power.

Cheers, Dan

sounds good. bit hard to tell without seeing it and i cant remember what a brumby looks like underneath, but subaru outbacks and foresters are raised up like how you have described from factory, ie. spacers between x member and body

where is the rack mounted to, on the x member?

Are you going to space the front struts down the same amount?

[cletus]

i'm running all power steer gear removed on my 205. the only thing anyone does more than blanking off the holes and removing the assist ram (it's a super archaic system that only makes a difference at low rpm and pparking situations for some reason) is to sometimes fit a pinion housing from a non p-a-s rack. they never alter teh pinion itself nor is it a two piece type like most others. do I need to prove this or do I need to change the little cover? once that's done, there's nothing different between pas and non pas racks aside from the ratio of pinion to rack gearing

where is the valve that operates the power assist ram?

[CaMpylobacter]

in the pinion. I jsut looked it up on the pug EPC but it doesn't show it as an exploded part as they expect you to buy a whole new 'pinion valve' assembly.

its not the semi disconnected type as most powersteering is, though, I'm 99% sure. It uses some array of ball bearings and springs to open and close the shuttle as to which way the pressure is needed. no slop can be found AT ALL when there's no oil feed hooked to it. (most racks have a slight amount of slop in the pinion to 'excite' fluid movement through the rack)

migth jsut be worthwhile doing the 'proper' conversion while it's easy to access though, huh?

[isnowi]

I have a bit of a collection of questions, may not be your area if expertise (and i do plan on talking to a local cert guy prior to kicking any of the big stuff off)

I plan to lift my Brumby 3" is there any specific information/standards as to what is acceptable in terms of material and construction, and size of lift blocks?

So far it is my intention to lift the body off the front crossmember using 75x50 RHS with 5mm wall, will reuse the OE studs and nuts, and new equivalant size/grade bolts and nuts to attach the crossmember to the lift block

The gearbox mounts to a 2nd crossmember which is also the radius rod mount, this crossmember mounts to the body at 3 points each side, all on differing levels, I plan to space this only 2" either with 3 seperate solid steel blocks using longer bolts of equivalant grade to OE, or by making a box section that matches the contour of the floor and crossmember with crush tubes at the bolt points, this would obviously involve a lot more fabrication, but to my mind it will potentially deal with shear loading better.

The rear suspension is a torsion bar setup, that mounts to the body at 2 points either side, these i will treat the same as the gearbox crossmember mounts, either seperate solid blocks and longer bolts, or with a boxed sub assembly.

I'm also swapping the factory 4 speed for a 5 speed (that bolts in) the 5 speed comes with a 2 peice driveshaft, which as i understand will need a hoop within 150mm of the gearbox UJ and the centre bearing UJ.

The rest of the build is fairly straightforward, engine swap with adaptor plate and redrilled flywheel, taller tyres.

Does any of this ring any alarm bells? There are obviously braking repercussions to fitting taller tyres, metallic pads and good new parts should provide sufficient stopping power.

Cheers, Dan

sounds good. bit hard to tell without seeing it and i cant remember what a brumby looks like underneath, but subaru outbacks and foresters are raised up like how you have described from factory, ie. spacers between x member and body

where is the rack mounted to, on the x member?

Are you going to space the front struts down the same amount?

Hi there, cheers for the reply,

Brumby is mechanically similar to the later model stuff, rack is mounted to engine crossmember, the main difference between later model and brumby era is the later model don't use a radius rod to locate the front wheel, they have an A arm with an extra body mount, the outbacks with raised suspension use the same crossmember as the non raised ones, just space it with a cast alloy block, they also mount the A arms with a drop mount to get it all even.

Front struts will be spaced 75mm as well, the blocks here will need an offset built in to keep camber to factory specs.

In your professional opinion will i better off using individual blocks (that won't require welding) for the gearbox xmember and also the rear xmember? I'm thinking it may be an easier process than proving the quality of the welding if i were to make box type subframes as i described above.

Cheers for your help.

[Testament]

esp if you can make the "blocks" circular out of round bar it will be really easy to whistle up whatever sizes required on a lathe.

[cletus]

migth jsut be worthwhile doing the 'proper' conversion while it's easy to access though, huh?

yep might save you some drama later on

[cletus]

In your professional opinion will i better off using individual blocks (that won't require welding) for the gearbox xmember and also the rear xmember? I'm thinking it may be an easier process than proving the quality of the welding if i were to make box type subframes as i described above.

Cheers for your help.

Thats the sort of thing you will want to discuss with the certifier you plan on using, if the 3 fixing points on each side are far enough apart then that should be fine the main thing i would be thinking about would be any extra leverage on the mounting points, because of the braking force applied by the radius rods....without seeing it is hard to make that call.

the other thing to consider is the steering shaft, you will need a longer one.... cant be extended by cutting and welding, needs to be a new one piece shaft or a factory longer one out of a suitable donor car. the rules for this arent available online, its in the hobby car manual

[cletus]

i also have a query. i have read the verm vern whatever it is . in regaurds to : ... double swaybars . according to it it is ok to have two swaybars as long and you dont chaing mounts and it does not fould on anything . no welding or redrilling is done etc . so my swaybar is sweet?.

i have also fitted a much larger diff (r160 up to r200) . the rules says its ok as long as it uses the same mounting points and nothing is modified. is this also correct?

yes if its all bolt on parts you should be fine

[isnowi]

In your professional opinion will i better off using individual blocks (that won't require welding) for the gearbox xmember and also the rear xmember? I'm thinking it may be an easier process than proving the quality of the welding if i were to make box type subframes as i described above.

Cheers for your help.

Thats the sort of thing you will want to discuss with the certifier you plan on using, if the 3 fixing points on each side are far enough apart then that should be fine the main thing i would be thinking about would be any extra leverage on the mounting points, because of the braking force applied by the radius rods....without seeing it is hard to make that call.

the other thing to consider is the steering shaft, you will need a longer one.... cant be extended by cutting and welding, needs to be a new one piece shaft or a factory longer one out of a suitable donor car. the rules for this arent available online, its in the hobby car manual

Thanks mate,

Steering is cool, a different model has donated it's universal that just happens to be the right length to compensate.

Will chat to local cert guy.

cheers

[Hemi]

i also have a query. i have read the verm vern whatever it is . in regaurds to : ... double swaybars . according to it it is ok to have two swaybars as long and you dont chaing mounts and it does not fould on anything . no welding or redrilling is done etc . so my swaybar is sweet?.

i have also fitted a much larger diff (r160 up to r200) . the rules says its ok as long as it uses the same mounting points and nothing is modified. is this also correct?

yes if its all bolt on parts you should be fine

cheers checked our book and thought id would be sweet , but its always nice having another back it up .

[xsspeed]

Looking at getting some stop gap tyres for mrs' daily driver, from 'tyrebusters' - have dealt with them in the past and got some potenza g3's which were all good.

The tyres in question are some Bridgestone Playz PZ-1, which from the looks of things are the JDm equivalent of re-001's (adrenalins).

I asked a similar question on toyspeed and a guy mentoined that if made in Thailand they cannot be used. (He may be confused with complied)

This sounds like BS if you can buy and use shitty TRIANGLE tyres etc.

[Testament]

are aftermarket control arms/suspension links at all legal with or without a cert on a road going vehicle?

e.g. on a 4-link setup going from a factory pressed steel control arm/link to an aftermarket item such as this

[4AG_Addict]

Yeah it's BS, i've had a few sets of Playz turn up on Imported wheels, never had any problems getting WOF with them.

[Sparkle]

If you have a car certed at a certain height, I understand that the measurement is from the hub center to the top of the guard lip? So, if you were to then add flares of modify the guard in some way, you would modify the certed height measurement without actually changing the ride height or anything about the car besides the guards

I'm interested in this, as someone was saying thats how height is measured now, not chassis to ground. Is this also the same/or replacing the 100mm law?

[Brock-Lee]

100mm law is still in place. If it is below 100mm then it has to have a cert, when it is certed it states the height on the plate as XXXmm from centre of hub to guard, It is a hell of a lot easier to measure that than the lowest point under the car.

Re: flares, wouldnt have a clue, ring up local certifier and ask. will take all of 30 seconds and gets you a definate answer rather than me/him/them/anyone telling you what they heard down the gas station one day

[cletus]

yes requires cert, most of the arms i have seen have been ok, there is some cheap crap around that is poorly designed and made though.

[twosmoke]

.

[mikuni]

I've now merged the two "cert questions" threads because it was quite confusing having two, with questions were being asked in both.