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Okay another suspension question for @cletus. Is there a minimum amount of arch required for a leaf spring? I've measured the Fairmont, if I lower it 40mm it'll even up the guard gap, leave the structure of the vehicle about 110mm from the ground and should give about 50mm between the unmodified bump stops and the diff. I'll get an extra over load leaf fitted but the springs will be fairly flat, I'm hoping fitting an extra leaf will mitigate this. Am I likely to run into any other issues? Couldn't see anything in the Virm.

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3 hours ago, chasinthemirage said:

Okay another suspension question for @cletus. Is there a minimum amount of arch required for a leaf spring? I've measured the Fairmont, if I lower it 40mm it'll even up the guard gap, leave the structure of the vehicle about 110mm from the ground and should give about 50mm between the unmodified bump stops and the diff. I'll get an extra over load leaf fitted but the springs will be fairly flat, I'm hoping fitting an extra leaf will mitigate this. Am I likely to run into any other issues? Couldn't see anything in the Virm.

Seems to depend on the cert mans opinion of how it rides. The packs on my B2000 are flat or maybe even slightly inverted at ride height but it rides ok. I have always worked to max allowable is flat at ride height without it being too bouncy, but if I can keep some arch it would be less likely to be denied/questioned by Lvvta. 

 

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15 hours ago, chasinthemirage said:

Okay another suspension question for @cletus. Is there a minimum amount of arch required for a leaf spring? I've measured the Fairmont, if I lower it 40mm it'll even up the guard gap, leave the structure of the vehicle about 110mm from the ground and should give about 50mm between the unmodified bump stops and the diff. I'll get an extra over load leaf fitted but the springs will be fairly flat, I'm hoping fitting an extra leaf will mitigate this. Am I likely to run into any other issues? Couldn't see anything in the Virm.

There isn't a spec for how much arc a leaf spring has to have, it would be up to the certifier to assess it. I have certed a few that have been flat or slightly the wrong way. An old bloke who was clever with suspension once told me his theory that a reverse arch spring is not ideal because the spring and shackle start trying to do opposite things- ie a normal arch spring gets longer which pushes the shackle away and up

A reverse arch spring gets shorter so pulls the shackle towards the spring and the shackle is then straightening up 

Some points = getting leafs reset, technically, requires certification. A complete aftermarket new leaf pack would not necessarily need cert. 

However its one of those things where if it wasn't too extreme you would likely get away with it 

 

Another thing that can help is getting the spring guy to reverse the spring eyes which keeps the leaf pack flatter while lowering the car 

 

 

As well as the bumpstops, check the pinion snubber clearance, there's usually less clearance there than the bump stops 

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So if it runs between/under the seat rails it's not energy absorbing? 

Like all of those show fuel lines, so must be front to back, 

The seat rails take up 95% of the width of the car, so it would have to be hard against the sill, or in the tunnel to be considered a rail

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5 hours ago, cletus said:

20221018_111729.jpg

 

A possible drawback of that would be reversing the bumpsteer in the rear wouldn't it? So instead of the spring getting longer and moving the wheel back under compression the spring would get shorter and pull the wheel forward? I'm not sure how much toe this would introduce and the other side would obviously move with that wheel, and I'm probably overthinking it?

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1 hour ago, GARDRB said:

A possible drawback of that would be reversing the bumpsteer in the rear wouldn't it? So instead of the spring getting longer and moving the wheel back under compression the spring would get shorter and pull the wheel forward? I'm not sure how much toe this would introduce and the other side would obviously move with that wheel,

 

 

 

and I'm probably overthinking it?

You are right though.

Lifted 4wds suffer from this when the arms get on crazy angles, same theory, they end up driving a bit like a backwards skateboard haha  

I think that's why there's a few videos around of lifted safaris and patrols lifting the left front tyre off the ground . It's not the unbridled horsepower of a TD42 doing that, it's body roll and shit geometry.

 

 

 

it's good to think like that as you can consider the effects of doing things instead of just doing the things and wondering why you ended up in a ditch  

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Thanks @cletus! I do remember being told about the shackles once upon a time. I'll have a decent look at it and have a chat to the spring makers. Ideally I'd like to only do stuff that can be reversed, if I'm going to cert it then I'd be tempted to bag it but thats a whole other can of worms that I'm not clued up on.

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13 hours ago, Bling said:

Don't open that can of worms. Are you leaving the blocks in with this setup or removing them and having the pack made to suit?

I'm going to leave the blocks in so that I can easily raise it again if I need to without having to do anything to the spring pack. That's the plan at this stage anyway.

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