keltik Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 On 02/06/2022 at 21:49, Roman said: I guess some of these generalizations change again once you start doing 20k rpm and reaching supersonic port speeds or whatever. Looking forward to this in 2025 judging by the current rate of 1NZ development. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted June 4, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2022 Toyota Echo Intake version 6 million As per previous waffling I think it will be beneficial from a reflected wave perspective to keep the intake runners more parallel most of the way up... Then also make them a bit longer. So I modelled this up. So this then had the flow on effect of making the fuel rail situation a little tidier as well, as it pokes in from the other side. So just use the regular tabs on the fuel rail for holding it in place. Also keeps more of the perimeter unobstructed, which might be important now tha the cross sectional area at the entrance is greatly reduced. Also now the fuel line and the injector plugs are flipping upside down too, so it will look a lot less messy. First iteration needs some dimensional changes to fit properly but so far so good. It's got about 10mm clearance the the bonnet which is perhaps a little marginal. (because of longer runners) But see how it goes. I still havent figured out how to print the nylon stuff properly yet, might need to wait until I've got some $$ to buy a dehydrator box. But I'll try get the design sorted in PLA for the moment anyway. 18 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share Posted June 5, 2022 I got a second half printed, still needs a few tweaks for the rail mounting. But before I get too carried away I can at least test how this new intake runner length/shape changes powerband. Just using the inner rail. Interestingly the main difference was that it needed heaps of fuel pulled out around the 3500rpm range. It had a bump around the 6000rpm mark, needing around 5% more fuel to reach target. But then above that it was slight losses in the 1% sort of range. I havent adjusted VVTI to suit any of this, so I might be able to claw back most of the losses, maybe raise some of the good areas too. But it's kinda looking like a slightly shorter intake would work good if I want to bump that 6000rpm peak a little higher. There's definitely no new bumps coming into play at the higher rpm range though, that were previously out of reach. Which is fine by me as this ever so slightly conks the bonnet on one of the runners. It would fit fine if they were just a little shorter. Also make a future airbox solution a little easier too. This is a comparison of the full throttle fuel table changes needed to reach goal air/fuel ratio. This is a cross section of current setup. It would be tempting to just chop some length out of the lower part near the throttles, but then the injectors would end up a bit closer. Ideally want to keep them as far out as I can, to give the concept a fair trial whenever that might eventually happen. Ahh well, back to the drawing board... 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 I've asked you a million times. but what is your runner length to head, and guesstimate to the back of the valve? as you say maybe long enough already. or in the no mans land before getting another "peak" Maybe try similar to what you have, but put a taper across the whole trumpet. a few degrees included angle is good. seems to be a tiny bit in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share Posted June 5, 2022 Its now about 360-370mm total length to back of valves. This is before/after. Had quite a taper on other one. Maybe shorter length and wider entrance was about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 hmm yeh pretty sure you'll be still in the hole at that length. I'd try another 50mm longer. taper along the whole runner, thats a little less aggressive than whats in those throttle bodies. bendy ones like you had before will be fine. long as long radius. maybe can use the radius of the bend to fit the injectors on top side with less angle. either way will be worth trying longer with/without the outboards. something like so, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted June 6, 2022 Author Share Posted June 6, 2022 Yeah thats gonna be tough to try fit, even with some bends. Will see what I can figure out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muncie Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 On 12/05/2022 at 12:21, Muncie said: Stand the whole arrangement up like an IDA Webber on a rotang and chop a hole on the bonnet. I'll chuck $20 towards a spare bonnet and loan you a grinder..... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted June 13, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2022 Big trumpets sticking out the bonnet will be a 1 way ticket to green sticker haha. I should have a new version with bonnet compatible extra length, ready to go by tomorrow night though. These ones are rotated on 45 degree angle in order to try get as much length in as I can. Then about 130 deg of bend or something like that. Hopefully these indicate that they are "too long" as my life is easier if I can fit straight ones. But if they make good power then cant complain! No outer injectors but will try get the runner length right first. Will also try borrow the @Stu Science(tm) tig welder soonish and have a go at splooging together a mild steel exhaust. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePog Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I'm excited for exhaust stuff. I think you will see big gains. Anecdotally, my x1/9 sounded amazing when I put 40s on it but wasn't really all that much gruntier. Then I made some headers based roughly off the Guy Croft opinion spec, although smaller pipe sizes cos it wasn't a race engine and I wanted it to fit the bodywork, and I immediately gained 800-900 revs and a big increase in livelyness all around. So yea, make it happen .... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Spencer Posted June 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 13, 2022 Yeah its pretty basic math that a 3" pipe is needed here. 8 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Don't forget the dumpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted June 14, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2022 Can confirm that the new block ventilation mod did not add any power. 5 5 4 1 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Rpm stress test result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 Something like that... Maybe the new curved runners were just too damn hectic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Oh shit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted June 14, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2022 I guess the right time to have fitted those stronger rods was yesterday 5 2 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muncie Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Might want to drop the rev limit 30 rpm for next engine... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cletus Posted June 14, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2022 While I am disappointed for you, I think that engine deserves a high 5 for its efforts, I'm surprised that didn't happen sooner tbh 12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARDRB Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Time for an engine that fits your gearbox with some big boy rods. Mr Glavish did say that bottom ends were expendable 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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