Roman's 4GR V6 Carina discussion thread

[VitesseEFI]

On 13/02/2023 at 07:53, Roman said:

Ring gear is CNC machined into the outside of my existing flywheel.

Will be interesting to see how different it is to the 3S flywheel, as it would make life easy if it fits. 

You mentioned that you didn’t think you could use your existing flywheel because the teeth were “cut wrong” for starter on the opposite side?

I assume you mean to allow the starter gear to go into engagement?

Not sure this is a problem in reality. I run a modified Nippon Denso reduction gear starter on my old Triumph. As the car originally had an inertia starter, where the gear engages from the back, the gearbox side of the teeth are chamfered. The engine side are not. The ND starter does not care at all and engages cleanly 100% of the time.

[GARDRB]

12 hours ago, Roman said:

Dunno, does 1UZ and 1MZ have the same PCD?

I think I'm going to need to keep the geometry of the Altezza flywheel in order to make everything work with least potential hassle. 

Have been looking into the idea of using CNC machine to redrill the flywheel bolts on the Toda altezza flywheel I've got. 
3S PCD is 70mm, 4GR is 85mm. 

Which from the front looks like it would work. But on the back face of the light flywheel it's only got a 90mm mounting surface.
It could potentially "work" but not keen to buzzsaw my legs off at high rpm if I can help it.

1uz appears to be 80mm, so closer than 3s, but still not right. What's the PCD on the 1MZ? With my 3s flywheel on the 1uz we took the 1uz ring gear and machined the diameter of the flywheel down to match then fitted the 1uz ring gear for the engine side engagement of the starter.

[fongs]

Rockauto has these for the 1gr tacomas etc, probably not super light but by no means a dual mass, crank pcd appears to be correct? Looks like they take a spigot bearing in the flywheel too

[Spencer]

Shit get a racing truck flywheel even better.

[GARDRB]

Is the 4gr the same block and crank pattern as the 1gr? I know when I was looking at 2gr RWD conversions the 1GR truck motor was quite different 

[Spencer]

Yeah no idea but probably.

I was just being silly, that lightweight truck flywheel is still heavy as. I have seen many a custom flywheel so if you chuck money at it should be easy. Then also seen a bunch of chopped and welded bellhousings by people with engineering and alloy weldy skills so should be all doable.

[fongs]

31 minutes ago, GARDRB said:

Is the 4gr the same block and crank pattern as the 1gr? I know when I was looking at 2gr RWD conversions the 1GR truck motor was quite different 

If there's a difference between the fwd and rwd 2gr alone then more than likely the block is different, the crank pattern appears to be the same going off what information is listed with those flywheels but then there's the likelihood of the ring gear working and the rest

7 minutes ago, Spencer said:

 was just being silly, that lightweight truck flywheel is still heavy as

You're right, 8 kilos is probably better than nothing but still a bit portly

[GARDRB]

I'm assuming Dave has already read much of this, but this was where I got my info about the blocks.

https://www.toymods.org.au/forums/threads/65328-2GRFE-Conversion-any-inputs

[cletus]

if its a big effort to fit,have to cut the car up etc, may as well fit a 3.5 version?

[yetchh]

19 minutes ago, cletus said:

if its a big effort to fit,have to cut the car up etc, may as well fit a 3.5 version?

That's what is going to say, can only rev it to 7k tho... Unless a 4gr crank fits into a 2gr block. 

[xsspeed]

2 hours ago, Spencer said:

that lightweight truck flywheel is still heavy as

UJ spec speed holes it is

[Hyperblade]

Take a breath, step back, study it, think about it objectively what other issues are going to crop up if it's not positioned where you were originally planning e.g. steering, cooling etc.

Think back to your original goals with the swap, will it still meet those?

Now's the easy time to pull out if you think it won't work. If to fit it you need to cut up the car, that's a pretty major step and easily spirals into a lot of other things.

Whichever way you go I'm all in and following!

[xsspeed]

I mean i hate to contaminate this thread again but

twenny debt

[RUNAMUCK]

Cough, VQ, cough......

They sound nearly as awful ad a beams, but they go like fuck. Pretty short engine too. 

/but very tall.

[Roman]

Yeah i guess it shouldnt be such a surprise that its huge, the whole reason this motor has a rod/stroke etc that is appealing is because small displacement in a stupidly big block.

At this point ive got nothing to lose by giving it a test fit in the engine bay, with a gearbox sorta bolted on.

But id be interested to get it on the scales. Back of the wagon sunk a whole lot when the forklift lowered it in...

For some reason the listed service weight of the 2500cc motor is 20kg heavier than 3500cc motor. But that might be because of some of the random extra bits that arent relevant to this.

If it looks like I need to chop up the engine bay to make it fit. Maybe I should test the concept in a Mark x first,to be sure its worth it.

[Spencer]

Yeah drop it in man see whats up, I would guess as you said the steering is probably right in the way. You find out fast when you plonk it in the bay and then its either easy or you make heaps of excuses how you can make it work and take 1 million years and $$.

Anyway ling posts but make it sound like one of these Mondeo V6 things please.

 

[shrike]

Id be doing a front/mid/dry sump and or a modified/custom cross-member before cutting/massaging the engine bay if it was me

Interesting that the 2GR and 4GR bolt patterns are different, but in saying that I know its been mentioned the RWD vs AWD/FWD blocks had different gearbox pattern

[shrike]

So back to the 2AR as an alternate again, depending on height to fit.

China/Russia/Thailand got a 6AR which is 86x86mm (2L) how would a crank from a 6AR (sourced from thailand) go in the 2AR as a destroke from a rod to stroke perspective? 

Custom rods maybe needed or to raid the parts bin ror something suitable

Looked at the new corolla engines (m20a) ?

[GARDRB]

14 hours ago, Roman said:

Yeah i guess it shouldnt be such a surprise that its huge, the whole reason this motor has a rod/stroke etc that is appealing is because small displacement in a stupidly big block.

At this point ive got nothing to lose by giving it a test fit in the engine bay, with a gearbox sorta bolted on.

But id be interested to get it on the scales. Back of the wagon sunk a whole lot when the forklift lowered it in...

For some reason the listed service weight of the 2500cc motor is 20kg heavier than 3500cc motor. But that might be because of some of the random extra bits that arent relevant to this.

If it looks like I need to chop up the engine bay to make it fit. Maybe I should test the concept in a Mark x first,to be sure its worth it.

If I can fit a 1uz in a corolla without modifying the firewall or ditching the swaybar, you can make this work. 

If the motor is the hilux bolt pattern rather than the 2gr bolt pattern you could always go to an R154/R151??

Otherwise let's see a 2gr echo

 

[xsspeed]

19 hours ago, Roman said:

2500cc motor is 20kg heavier than 3500cc motor

less material removed? are bores different?

more material for strength for those hektik rpms, keep the rods inside the environment