Romans 2005 Toyota Echo

[Roman]

HAHAHA

This car is the gift that keeps on giving (Go to 11:20 if it doesnt automatically)
 

 

[deankdx]

25 minutes ago, Roman said:

This car is the gift that keeps on giving (Go to 11:20 if it doesnt automatically)

i replied in the video comments : google This 9,000-RPM, Prius-Engined Toyota Echo Sounds Seriously Good ..you won't be disappointed.

 

[Roman]

Here's the remix.
 

 

[xsspeed]

i still cant get over how glorious this thing sounded at full nang

[shrike]

2zz-ge into an echo 122kw and 162nm atw, @Romanwhat was your final dyno number?

https://www.facebook.com/100075883510301/posts/288421180363997/?mibextid=Nif5oz

[Rhyscar]

24 minutes ago, shrike said:

2zz-ge into an echo 122kw and 162nm atw, @Romanwhat was your final dyno number?

https://www.facebook.com/100075883510301/posts/288421180363997/?mibextid=Nif5oz

That's quite average power output from a 2zz. By the looks of the dyno curve it must be using factory headers... 140kw is typically what you get with a good tune. 

 

But 1NZ is a lot more impressive than a 2zz cause it has 0.5L less capacity!

[Roman]

Yeah might be a harsh dyno - or car might still need a bit more development.

2zz echos in puerto rico run 10 second quarter miles on a stock bottom end.

Power levels of that car are similarish to my 1nz. But my motor was tapped out, that will have lots left in it! 

If it was staying at that power level though, id take the 1nz instead. Less weight, easier maintenance, much easier to replace a motor if needed.

But if they commit to developing that car a bit more. It will be wild.

[Rhyscar]

I feel like drag racing is the wrong motorsport type for a 1NZ... 

 

 

[Spencer]

1 hour ago, Roman said:

 

2zz echos in puerto rico run 10 second quarter miles on a stock bottom end.

 

Damn now you made me go watch videos of Peurto Rico NA drag racing, pretty sure there was a 9.9 second NA 3TC so the 2ZZ must be junk.

Man do they have the coolest drag racing scene or what.

[xsspeed]

1 hour ago, Spencer said:

pretty sure there was a 9.9 second NA 3TC

FR? link? I found this one @10.9 but didnt spot engine spec to know if NA for sure, no dosing and intake side suggests NA

edit: 10.3 here

 

[kpr]

2zz-  82mm  bore   85mm stroke

3tc -  85mm  bore   78 mm stroke

 

3tc  = race car engine

[Spencer]

@xsspeed these guys are living the dream running 9's in a 3T starlet.

 

[Roman]

Look for "Salinas speedway" on facebook. 

Some of the shit on there is absolutely wild. Puerto Rico drag racing visit is 100% on the bucket list. 

[xsspeed]

I haven't tried to look but whats the go on a puerto rican 3tc NA build, presume not a grouted block as thats just for high boost strength

[kpr]

toyota hemi,    basically  ultimate turd polishing.  along with low weight, close ratio box and  well setup cars. probably some exotic fuel.     Even though only 2 valve, the bigger bore than stroke allows bigger valves to fit in same capacity.    one of those engines that have plenty of scope to modify but nothing special in factory config.  

[Roman]

Assuming my motor made 150whp in its final config (second dyno said 200whp which was... optimistic) 
Here's a comparison.
I wonder if they've got the exhaust choked up badly. Seems like it hates the big cam until high rpm. 
Hopefully they keep developing it, and dont just call it a day after that dyno session! 

[kpr]

with the right exhaust setup, should be able to run the high cam way down at  4500 -  5000rpm and gain stacks of mid range.

cam spec

roman 1nz   266/266?  deg
2zzge high cam  292/276 deg
7age  284/278 deg

 

 

 

 

[Truenotch]

On 21/07/2023 at 18:53, kpr said:

toyota hemi,    basically  ultimate turd polishing.  along with low weight, close ratio box and  well setup cars. probably some exotic fuel.     Even though only 2 valve, the bigger bore than stroke allows bigger valves to fit in same capacity.    one of those engines that have plenty of scope to modify but nothing special in factory config.  

The motor in @MaxPower 's KE25 is testament to what a 2T-B can do. It's a fairly basic block AAFIK (standard pistons) and has more compression, a big boy cam, good extractors and a set of sideys. It was ~120kw on a similar rolling road to what @kpr has and used to happily rev to 8500+. 

It'd be cool to build a full-noise one!

[Spencer]

Just get one of these stage 4 3T heads faxed over and you are good for 9's (well I think the turbo 3TC's did 7's like 15 years ago so probably faster)

https://paradiseracing.com/products/toyota-2tc-3tc-stage-4-cylinder-head

[Roman]

Hi, just a thread ressurection to cover off a bit of a post mortem on the first motor. 
I covered some of this earlier but I finally pulled the motor fully apart a couple of days ago. 
(FYI @GregT and @VitesseEFI )

So what do we know for starters before I pulled the motor out? 
Well, theres a big hole in the block. But unknown level of carnage inside apart from that a rod is broken.

So my first thoughts were, yep, finally the skinny 1NZ rods have caught up with me. 
Which is why I had some forged rods set aside for fitting at some point. 

However, when I took the head off the engine. It was interesting that on this cylinder the piston was just parked at TDC. It hadnt hit the head at all - no damaged valves or anything. 
The only damage was some block debris that got sucked into an adjacent cylinder, and put a little dent in the piston top.

So I was expecting to pull out the whole piston, with a little bit of rod dangling off the bottom. 

So when I tapped it out, and this is all that came out, I actually laughed so hard. Oh man! 



Totally unexpected! 
Then looking down the bore, there was just a small part of the rod left swinging around on the crank. Gudgeon pin AWOL but possibly in the sump.
Oil filter and housing both AWOL. 

So some of this isnt consistent with idea of the rod breaking first.
For starters, if the rod broke first I'd expect to see the gudgeon pin and a small part of the rod still hanging from the piston.

Looking at the piston there are two types of damage, some areas where they have been bashed by the rod or gudgeon pin. Where it looks dented in. 
But then other areas where it looks powdery - this is cast alloy breaking or being pulled in half.

Then looking at the block, there are some clues about what happened too.



Since the piston was just happily parked at TDC it makes me think that what likely happened is this:

Piston approaching TDC, decelerating.
Rod starts yanking the piston back down.
Piston says "no thanks" 
piston cracks, top stays at the top held there by the rings.
Now the lower half of piston, full rod, and gudgeon pin are swinging around unsupported. 

On one side of the block, you can see where there is a notch that clearly shows the width of the rod flapping around smashing stuff... But a little bit below this, is a hole a little wider than the gudgeon pin...
So I think the unsupported rod flopped over, got pushed hard against the bottom of the sleeve/bore. Then the only direction it could go was out the side. 
Then it had no choice but to smash through the block.
Then either on the way out or the way back in, the gudgeon pin and top of the rod broke off. 
Then the remainder of the rod was free to flail around, which is why there's a vertical notch higher than the wide gudgeon pin sized hole.

The piston has holes in it to return oil from the bore that the rings scrape off. So these were a weak point, broke partially across these.




Being a 4 stroke engine there are two times approaching TDC where this could have happened, on the compression stroke or exhaust stroke. Can we tell which? 
Well, can have a good guess. 
When you do a compression test, you might get like 200psi or 150psi on the gauge... thats a value from the compression stroke.
So on the compression stroke at TDC it's actually holding the top of the piston in place with 200psi or whatever before any combustion has happened.
Then also since you have an ignition event happening earlier than TDC, it's already building some pressure from that too. So unlikely to happen on this stroke.

On the exhaust stroke though, especially if you have good extractors. There is no ignition event building pressure.
The only resistance on the way up, is the exhaust gas trying to push out the exhaust.  At or close to TDC there can be close to absolute vacuum above the piston.
So you've got 200psi less force trying to stop the top of the piston from coming off. 
So this makes me think it likely happened just after TDC on exhaust stroke.

When I pulled all of the pistons and rods out, there wasnt really any extra information to be gained about the one that was damaged. 
But I thought it would be interesting to look at the other three. 
I've not measured anything up, or pulled anything apart. 
But a visual inspection doesnt show anything immediately wrong with the other three.

1NZ motor still makes me amazed at how tiny everything is - Undo the rod caps with a 10mm socket. Undo the main caps with a 12mm socket. Haha! 
Which is not saying something against it. This is the whole reason this motor went as well as it did. Everything is CRAZY light. Nothing is bigger than it needs to be.
And the end of the rods have small dowel pins in them to align the cap as well. Real race car shit.

The main point of trying to figure all of this out though. Is that if the piston failed first, then there's no point fitting aftermarket rods (which I already had) 
So in that respect it was disappointing to see that the piston seems to be what broke. As aftermarket pistons cost a lot.

I'm not sure if there's too much more I can discern from these remaining pistons/rods as I dont have any decent measuring equipment etc. 
However it might be interesting to do a dye penetrant test on a piston and see if there's any hairline fractures etc.
I'll buy a kit at some stage, and post up if there's anything interesting showing up.