ajg193 Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 If I was you I'd look into setting up a sort of crank/cam sensor arrangement with your chain drive oil pump setup. Something that either kills the engine or throws a warning light when the chain stretches/wears beyond allowable limits. That's a scary setup that could cause a lot of financial/time damage if it lets go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toucan Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 This is mind blowing! More more more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 Probs better with the sprockets you ended up with, the Shimano ones have the shifter ramps in them. Â Should have used campagnolo though you know 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locost_bryan Posted August 16, 2020 Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 On 19/07/2020 at 15:19, yoeddynz said: Cheers KK. I do actually have a little folder on my laptop dedicated to just pics of sexy looking 911 engines and I think I would probably be banished from Oldschool if I fit anything other than itbs. I'm definitely going to use efi though so sadly, some might say, it wont have the full on classic look of webers lined up. But I plan to try my best to have the engine 'classic' looking, in a 60's race car inspired sort of style . I won't have brightly coloured AN fittings and braided lines etc that for me often ruin a classic engine bay. Here's a neat vid of a cafe racer styled Goldwing, stripped down with 6 webers. Its pretty neat.... https://youtu.be/iuuiHgzlgp8 If Burlen get their SU injection to market, 6 of these would look cool. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, ajg193 said: If I was you I'd look into setting up a sort of crank/cam sensor arrangement with your chain drive oil pump setup. Something that either kills the engine or throws a warning light when the chain stretches/wears beyond allowable limits. That's a scary setup that could cause a lot of financial/time damage if it lets go Feel free to explain to me what's so scary about it? Its not finished yet. What you've seen so far is a mock up. @tortron yeah i considered using an 8 speed cassette and having a variable oil pump speed. Campag for max italian street cred. Or shimano because it works better.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePog Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 It's just running the oil pump right? I reckon that would be fine, it's in a bath. Even if it stretches it will still run the pump. If it breaks the oil pressure light will come on. Single speed chain is pretty strong, in an ideal world you would run duplex but whatevs. I guess the speed/inertia might be an issue, but apart from it not being duplex it is the same setup as a cam chain bar pitch differences. /trustmeimanengineer 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tortron Posted August 17, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 Gn125 cam chains are cheap. go on, put GN parts in it 5 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ThePog said: It's just running the oil pump right? I reckon that would be fine, it's in a bath. Even if it stretches it will still run the pump. If it breaks the oil pressure light will come on. Single speed chain is pretty strong, in an ideal world you would run duplex but whatevs. I guess the speed/inertia might be an issue, but apart from it not being duplex it is the same setup as a cam chain bar pitch differences. /trustmeimanengineer yeah just an oil pump. Previously there was a smaller chain that ran two oil pumps plus a water pump! So as far as torque loadings go the chain I have selected is pretty burly and compared to the torque a strong rider can put through a chain its nothing. Wear over a long time is the issue but yeah- oil bath. Certainly going to find out over time how long it lasts. Â Treat me and my engine as an interesting experiment in the testing of bicycles chains. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 i was getting 10000k out of 9 speed chains without ever washing them and them being full of wet sand 75% of the time, and loading me plus 50kg of gear through them. They never snapped, just got longer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzstato Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 I'm curious to see how the flywheel/gearbox setup looks when you get to it. The casting/layout doesnt do to many favors, the frequent use of the mill makes for good content for us on the other side! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 I'm still quite far behind on the updates so that bit has just yet to be posted up. After lockdown ended and I kind of 'went back to work' with paid work coming back in the goldwing project went right to the back burner so to speak. In fact I have spent more time in the last few weeks typing out these posts than I have working on the engine! Something to do with it being warmer inside than out in the workshop. Now we are right into the start of building a mezzanine so engine fettling is going to be put aside again. Lucky I have a few 'updates' still to be released eh 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUL8R Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 Nice work. Motorbike chain too bulky for space constraints? / You've already done it now. From what I know of its the whipping that kills the chains normally - which is related more to the tensioners failing than anything else Could just run a oil pressure feed to your ECU, that way if it drops below x psi it goes into limp mode / warning light if you're paying attention Will you have a guide down one side of the chain, and the other with the tensioner? (Pic below is of a gemini setup, 3 is the guide (I think steel backed with a teflon sort've thing) 4 is the tensioner arm, 2 is the spring loaded tensioner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 yeah sort of like that - definitely tensioners. Possibly a guide on the longer chain. Interestingly ford removed the guide on their later duratec engines because whip is not really a thing on oil pump drives- the oil pump acts as a buffer (always a consistent resistance) and so takes away the pulses that you get on the cam chain setup for example. So ford found somewhere they could save money.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yetchh Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 That gemini set up is the same as the 70's mazda setup (ma etc) mazda's run a chain dive oil pump with no tensioner or guide. Never seen one break, only stretch.. How long does it need to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 I'd be running the chain off a reel mower. I've broken too many bike chains to take the chance. If that chain fails, its GAME OVER! For your engine. The oil pump chain drive from a Mazda rotary is double row no? Some things should always be over engineered imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 There's no room for double row. Anyway- the chain I have selected and bought wont be snapping in a hurry. Wear over thousands of miles is more my worry but I'm not losing sleep over it. Its all just a fun toy to play with. Next time you need a chain fitting please let me fit it for you-Â decent quality chains on bikes should not snap if fitted correctly. They'll only give trouble if mashed up in a previous situation like dropping down between the rings and chainstays etc. Then you can go riding with me again Mazda rotary chains are single row- well at least the 12A ones are that I'm familiar with. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 9 hours ago, yetchh said: That gemini set up is the same as the 70's mazda setup (ma etc) mazda's run a chain dive oil pump with no tensioner or guide. Never seen one break, only stretch.. How long does it need to be? Neither chain is very long and are as short as I can go - if I remove a link the teeth will clash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tortron Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 engines not fit for purpose and bicycle parts is how we went from horse and cart to the moon in a hundred years 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 I've already lined up some pretty sweet 13 x 7 wooden cart wheels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajg193 Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 I think even something as simple as a hall effect sensor/proximity switch that detects when the chain tensioner has had to extend too far due to wear would really help in this situation. As Bort says, one second without oil pressure at 7000 rpm and all of your hard work is toast. I've been lead to believe that there are subtle differences in chains that make them suitable for different environments - bike chains are pretty much expected to operate at low speed under high load in a dirty environment, quite different to what they will see in an engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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