megasquirt questions

[Lith]

I've had limited exposure to them but from what I've seen and read I think they're potentially hugely overrated, a dude whose fairly serious Skyline build I am going to be tuning may end up going with the MS3Pro after a few conversations we've had - the spec looks awesome for what it offers.

I think a lot of the issues people have with them are user error, they are actually reasonably "advanced" in terms of capability etc and I think a lot of people don't get their head around what needs to be configured to make them work properly - I've picked up the tuning for a car which had already been "running well" on a MS3 and on first glance through it I spotted a number of things which weren't quite on the money, hard to say whether fucks not given or if they just didn't realise what it all meant, but either way I'll always embrace ways of making a setup which "goes well" go even better   Will be doing a dyno tune on it this weekend, looking forward to getting more intimate with it.

[flyingbrick]

Sorry if this has been covered.

Are many professional (and reputable) tuning shops familiar with the ms software? How are peoples experiences with getting shops to work on them?

[rob]

My friend had no major dramas getting NZEFI in Christchurch to use TunerStudio. I think they were initially a little cagey over the phone, but when he turned up and they realised he knew what he was doing and wasn't just some dreaming dropkick it was all sweet.

[Rookie]

Basically the tuning software is as easy to use as any other (comparable to using mac vs pc etc), they both have the same functions, just some things are called different things and the layout is different, so if a shop says they can't do it what they are really saying is "I can't be fucked doing it"

[downtrail]

Ive dyno tuned quite a few megasquirts. There easy to tune comparing to link tuner studios layout is better than pc link in my opinion (easier to navigate) but as above alot of problems are user related. If im to do one i prefere to install it. When i get one that the customer has installed 9 times out of 10 i have to fix something first.

[Testament]

^this is the biggest issue with MS and dynos

quite fairly dyno guy hates it when some guy turns up with junk that doesnt work right/has problems. this is alot more likely/more common with MS because of its DIY nature and harder for them to diagnose/fix than a link

[Rookie]

I would almost wager that your average RBWAT munter would struggle installing a Link just as much as a prebuilt MS.

[Testament]

no doubt, but the average tuner probably has more experience with fixing poorly installed links

[downtrail]

Biggest problems I come across are poor earths. 2nd biggest is sheilding every bloody megasquirt that ive either taken over half way through an install or had it bought to me to tune never have sheilded trigger cables. There triggering is sensitive enough as they are, add in extra noise and your asking for trouble. 

[Stu]

TBH, haven't read all that many posts from this thread but noticed the above post and agree 50000%, possibly even more than that...

 

Had plenty of both Link and MS systems through (and others too). The number one MS and Link issue I see is triggering related - be it shit wiring/poor wiring practice in the first place, poor or no shielding/poor triggering connections. Bad earthing (both ecu related and general chassis/battery to engine) is next cab off the rank.

 

Overall though and in my experience MS has been more problematic and 9/10 times its due to super sensitive triggering, where as if the wiring is good I never see those issues with Link. But hey, I could just be unlucky.  I haven't built any MS ecus from scratch either I should point out but I have wired them from scratch lots of times - read into that what you will. Had a few older MS boards that even with brand new shielded wiring etc etc have had really random miss fires that just wouldn't go away.  

 

Link wise had a few weird issues recently when upgrading to the latest Link G4+ firmware - had two cars running G4+ storms that would decide to only run on 3 rather than 4 cylinders on startup after the firmware update.  Roll back one version and back to normal.  Didn't spent too much time working out why though as the latest features weren't needed for the cars in question.

 

In contrast to the above, I prefer the Link software for tuning but I've got the page layouts changed to my own format so everything I need is there and easily accessible.  Data logging is great and very easy to work with when adjusting maps.

 

Its personal preference really. Mine is Link over MS but just roll with what works for you.  There's plenty of success stories with both.

 

Im keen to try out the M1 series one day, the software looks good

[Roman]

I've ranted about it before, but just some numbers...

I wanted to buy a (mostly) preassembled MS3 with all the extras.

A preassembled one (not keen to do it myself) with an LC2 chucked in and some misc bits came to approx $1550 to my door. A lot more expensive than it first seemed.

 

A G4+ Storm was only $330 or so extra, so didnt seem like much of a leap. (Although I ended up buying an Xtreme instead, which was more like $1000 more)

Link had presets for all of the triggers, a basemap to use, etc which meant it started up pretty much first pop.
No one had run megasquirt on my sort of engine before, which gave me cold feet about the idea. (VVTI etc which make things complicated)

 

Incidentally since my purchase, someone else bought an MS3 to setup on a VVTI motor like mine.
It needed custom code to get the VVTI working, which took time.
The guy ended up having the cam "wander", it couldnt keep it at the desired angle well enough...
Ended up making less power than with factory ECU, a few months and a few more dyno sessions down the track I dont think he's gotten any further with it.
I dont have the patience or expertise to be a trail blazer with that sort of thing.

From what I've seen MS seems to work most successfully when people are converting carb motors to EFI, so they are using all of the triggers, sensors etc that MS likes.
Or EFI swaps done this way.
And just using a basic setup instead of wanting all of the complicated stuff.uld not know how to resolve. Or VVTI issues etc.
I think I'll whip together an MS project at some point, a carb > EFI conversion. I reckon it will be fun. In the yellow car perhaps.

[Rookie]

Triggering is definitely the hardest part, an I think most of it is caused by vr sensors, even your link didn't work first crack roman, basically vr sensors suck and I don't know why anyone uses them?

Both me and tom used a 36-1 trigger wheel and an off the shelf hall effect sensor along with the supplied shielded cable and had prefect triggering off the bat.

[downtrail]

They have there place i prefere link over megasquirt link are much more flexiable. Doing a haltec for a guy shortly and they look just as good as link.

Only reason i dont mind working with megasquirt is i like the diy approach. I love it when people get into them and make them work its a sense of satisfaction for them. Its kinda like hey i made this and it works!

For my customers that are focused on motorsport ill reccomend link. A there here in nz i can ring and ask questions if need be. And b there so much more stable when comparing to megasquirt.

Once you have a known setup that you know works well with megasquirt there easy. Its the hey i have this random motor that nobodys tried megasquirt with before. Thats when things get weird.

[Roman]

Triggering is definitely the hardest part, an I think most of it is caused by vr sensors, even your link didn't work first crack roman, basically vr sensors suck and I don't know why anyone uses them?

Both me and tom used a 36-1 trigger wheel and an off the shelf hall effect sensor along with the supplied shielded cable and had prefect triggering off the bat.

Yes so the problem with my triggering was a physical one, one of the teeth was damaged.

I narrowed it down to this, by having preset triggers that I knew SHOULD work - And using the onboard trigger scope to check the waveform.

If I was using an MS (which doesnt have a trigger scope?) at the same time as doubting my configuration of it, it would have been a lot harder to figure out.

Especially since this interimittent trigger problem was probably a contributor to the issues I had with the standard ECU as well, but I just had no easy way of knowing.

Yeah VR sensors do seem to be a pain in the balls, but my cam angle sensor is stuck in the head and there's no real way to swap it for something else.

If/when I do an MS setup, (when my current to-do list is a bit shorter!) I'll definitely be using all of the triggers/sensors/etc reccomended by MS with it. Best way to go for sure.

[BlownCorona]

all this talk of shielded trigger cables. 

 

i am just using a normal wire for my trigger (currently operated from points) with no apparent issue. when i fix the damage to the carbs ill be upgrading to a hall sensor. i assume i should also upgrade to a shielded trigger wire too?

 

seems like something i should have anyway. 

[downtrail]

Yup a 2 core shielded cable. one core for signal / trigger one core for sensor ground ( attach to sensor ground at ecu) then run a power feed to power the hall effect sensor. Ground the shield at the ecu end ONLY to sensor ground.   

[BlownCorona]

Sweet as, will add that to the to do list

[anglia4]

Jeff, just get a 36-1 trigger wheel and some ls coils out of the states for $100, add 2 extra coil drivers to the board and you will be away.

 

Coils like these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/129-LS1-LS2-LS7-Single-Pack-W-Braket-4-coils-CHEVY-VETTE-Z06-06-PONTIAC-IMPALA-/200939791995?hash=item2ec8f1e67b&vxp=mtr

 

For the v8 would you use 8 of these coils and signal 2 coils from each driver?

(I should really read the megamanual shouldnt I...)

[peteretep]

exactly those ones, that looks like a pretty good price,

 

Alternatively I bought mine from rockauto and found some that were on special, just need to look through the different vehicles that had them and some are on sale and some arent

[Testament]

yeah just get set of 8 plus plug leads (note the coil to ignition lead connection is a pin not a cup on these so you cant use any old lead with a  conventional end) plus maybe the plug/loom that goes from the central plug to make life easy as well - although you could cut that off and connect to the wires directly if you wanted. depends how/where you plan to mount them.

 

and yeah you can fire two at a time for wasted spark so you only need 4 digital low current ignition outputs. definitely read the megamanual and especially read the MSnS manual as that is the code you want to use and a few things are a little bit different.