yoeddynz

DIY Fuel injection thread.

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Pity its a 3s.    If it was done based on a 4age it would look more like this :

unicorn.jpg.4d95167e73c30ccca1728ce084f319f9.jpg

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13 hours ago, BlownCorona said:

have you seen KPRs 4ages? his unicorns have defiantly seen some shit...

I've been aware of his shenanigans 4ages ;)

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Right got a few questions for the gurus from a diy efi noob 

basics - ems stinger ecu 

setup for wasted spark 3 ignition channels thru Mitzi j723t igniter and Mazda/ford coil pack for v6 

36- 1 crank trigger and vr. ( magnetic ) pickup 

I have power in the right places and tachometer on laptop shows steady 200rpm cranking so theoretically the sensor and settings for crank trigger are working 

rising rate ignition and dwell settings are as set for Mitzi ignitor 

tested ignitor and coil resistances and connections and wiring 

don’t seem to be getting spark visible at plugs or on lead tester but have had a few chuffs on engine start ether 

stinger software has an ignition simulator but it won’t seem to open on laptop 

any ideas ? I’m kinda at the stage of fuck it buy a link atom g4x ...

 

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Just now, Transom said:

Right got a few questions for the gurus from a diy efi noob 

basics - ems stinger ecu 

setup for wasted spark 3 ignition channels thru Mitzi j723t igniter and Mazda/ford coil pack for v6 

36- 1 crank trigger and vr. ( magnetic ) pickup 

I have power in the right places and tachometer on laptop shows steady 200rpm cranking so theoretically the sensor and settings for crank trigger are working 

rising rate ignition and dwell settings are as set for Mitzi ignitor 

tested ignitor and coil resistances and connections and wiring 

don’t seem to be getting spark visible at plugs or on lead tester but have had a few chuffs on engine start ether 

stinger software has an ignition simulator but it won’t seem to open on laptop 

any ideas ? I’m kinda at the stage of fuck it buy a link atom g4x ...

 

My lancer had a stinger in it when I got it, couldn't get it to talk to laptop. Ended up with a g4+ atom

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Yeah I got a 90s spec laptop with serial port that talks to it fine - anything more modern can’t open the help files ... 

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is there a ems forum you can ask questions at?

Me and a few others on here are thinking of doing a few speeduinos together- buy all the parts together and bring the cost right down (like around $100-$150) and they'll be more than enough to run a mazda k series sweet as. Tune on tunerstudio too which works very nicely.

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Ems forum is long dead and the manufacturer site is barely hanging in there 

yeah have thought about building an ms-2 or speeduino but at this point I’m over it and just want to see some results while I have some time to spend on it 

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Just now, Transom said:

Ems forum is long dead and the manufacturer site is barely hanging in there

Doesn't sound like something you'd want to fight to get running and then have to diagnose a fault in two years when its finally fallen over. 

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TBH after going microsquirt on my project I would probably do a Link if I did it again. A Link might cost like $600 more but in the grand scheme of doing things properly (new sensors, new hoses, pump, injectors etc and paying for a cert) it isn't really that much and there would probably be better support 10 years down the track. Resale value would also be better too. And if you were to pay someone to tune it you will have an easier time finding someone willing to tune it (not recommended as it really does take years to fully tune an efi system)

 

That being said, the microsquirt works perfectly fine.

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For me there's no satisfaction in paying heaps for something that I can build for much cheaper. Even if its takes me a long time and sure, I could just work more hours and earn that difference and buy a link. 

But that is buying, not building. I'm personally not turned on by opening my wallet and taking the 'easy route' when I can instead join other like minded folk  on platforms like speeduino and have some fun making things. It's one reason I like to press about with old cars :-)

Who buys new sensors and injectors? Just a rob a jappa car of its bits and go for it. Even basic efi, done correctly is going to be better than a worn out shitty dizzy and an old carb. 

Advising people to stump up and just buy a link is not what I created this thread for. It's in the name.... 'DIY fuel injection' 

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Yep all good points and yes I am diy as much as possible - trying to go for least frustration at the moment after getting some progress after a long slow battle - yes we play with odd old cars for fun I enjoy the challenge of figuring things out that but with the money I have spent on this so far I could have pressed the easy button long ago 

thanks for input - I am thinking the ems stinger can die in a magic smoke fire... 

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The thing is that with a Link you actually get a better ECU than a speeduino - there is absolutely no way to argue that point. Some people like the high speed data logging and analysis that the significantly more powerful hardware is capable of (most applications don't need it though). It's also assumed to be designed by proper engineers to industrial best practice standards, where something like the speeduino and megasquirt isn't necessarily so robust.

I'm not saying the cheaper ways to go about it are wrong, but if you want to have something that you won't have to touch for 20-30 years once it is set up (yes, some people don't actually want to tinker on their car for ever and ever) then you're best off just getting new parts and a well made ECU.

It's still DIY EFI if you wire, plumb, fabricobble and tune it yourself. Otherwise you could pull the other extreme end of the argument and say that people have to make their own silicon chips and their own firmware.

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Go pedal your wares elsewhere. If we cared about how much better a Link was, we wouldn't have this thread to begin with.

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As an example here are some approx costs of my setup:

 

Initial efi manifolds with injectors and other associated bits: $400
First fuel pump: $80 (second hand)
Second fuel pump: $120 (too big and noisy)
Third fuel pump: $180 (Walbro, perfect. I should have just stumped up in the first place)
New injectors: $90 each (old injectors started leaking)
MAP/Baro sensors: $40 ea at pick a part
7K Distributor to modify: $150
ECU/Loom/Innovate LC-2 O2 sensor: $1000ish
Replacement O2 sensor after LC-2 killed one: $180
Replacement O2 sensor after LC-2 killed another one: $50 from China (still working)
14.7 Spartan 2 O2 controller: $200 with new sensor (still haven't used sensor)
Fuel hoses: $150
Hose/P Clamps: $80
Fuel filter: $40
New pressure regulator from Rockauto: $40 (old one was shit)
Mitsubishi J121 ignition module: $120
Temperature sensors: $60
TPS: $50 from Trademe (Chinese knockoff)
Replacement TPS: $15 from Aliexpress
Replacement replacement TPS: $70 genuine AC Delco
Cert: $650

 

Approx total so far: $4075 (HOLY SHIT!)

Amount wasted on old/cheap parts so far over $935. If I didn't buy second hand parts or crap parts I could have just spent the money on a better ECU or had a grand more in my pocket. It's false economy trying to skimp on certain things (old MAP sensors seem to be fine though). To be fair, the fuel pumps I'm not using are still fine they just aren't ideal for the application.

List keeps on going on.

 

Edit: After seeing those figures I can definitely understand why most people who tune cars will outright refuse to do it if you have second hand or counterfeit parts on the car.
 

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12 hours ago, Transom said:

Right got a few questions for the gurus from a diy efi noob 

basics - ems stinger ecu 

setup for wasted spark 3 ignition channels thru Mitzi j723t igniter and Mazda/ford coil pack for v6 

36- 1 crank trigger and vr. ( magnetic ) pickup 

I have power in the right places and tachometer on laptop shows steady 200rpm cranking so theoretically the sensor and settings for crank trigger are working 

rising rate ignition and dwell settings are as set for Mitzi ignitor 

tested ignitor and coil resistances and connections and wiring 

don’t seem to be getting spark visible at plugs or on lead tester but have had a few chuffs on engine start ether 

stinger software has an ignition simulator but it won’t seem to open on laptop 

any ideas ? I’m kinda at the stage of fuck it buy a link atom g4x ...

 

what are your dwell times set at?  should be set for coils rather than igniter.  also its fairly easy to fry those mitsu ignitors.

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22 minutes ago, ajg193 said:

big ol expensive shopping list
 

you did the 2nd hand parts build REAL expensive

lets take a look at my case (sans supercharger, but will include some efi components i bought to support it)
 

18RGEU engine - $1000

MS1 ecu diy assemble - ~200 (i cant rememember exactly)

fuel pump ( ga60 spare from my brother - similar power level so should be good flow wise) - free

mitsi 450cc injectorts, cleaned and flowed - $100

subaru coil pack & ignitor - pick a part - $50 (might be differenct pricing these days

new fuel line - $30 

IAT sensor - $95 (possibly the one part i wanted asap so bought local

fuel filters - free with engine

inovate lc2 - installed properly, never fucked a sensor - $100 - brand new second hand

tps - pick a part - $20

cert - $650 (but i need cert for alot more than just an efi conversion. 

total cost to efi AND engine swap the corona - $2245

sure i had alot of collected bits and pieces over the years so feel free to sling another few hundred on that total. and its way less and with a new engine...  so my point isn't that you did it wrong, its just that i dont think its a proper representation of what can be done. 

 

full disclosure, i was feeling like the MS1 was limiting me a little with a boosted engine and was all geared up to buy a microsquirt which imo is an amazing little ecu for the price range. youd have to agree surely having actually owned and run one? but a little voice in my head said use the motec thats literally collecting dust on your shelf. so thats whats happening now. and the ms1 will be donated to my brothers ga61 celica so he can run ITBs and ditch an anoying fault with his factory ecu. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Microsquirt is fine and all, but when it has a tendency to blow a resistor on its board the first time you start it up (common issue, you need to open it up and replace with a 1/4 watt capable resistor and it's fine then) it throws a bit of a shadow on its quality and always makes you wonder what could be the next thing to go bad.

I can guarantee you that the LC-2 was installed correctly, they just have a reputation for being extremely hard on sensors. The Spartan has been absolutely flawless ans is significantly cheaper to buy compared to LC-2.

How many km have you done on the car since you've built it? It can take quite a long time for second hand parts to show their age, but if it works it works.

I'm absolutely certain that I did it wrong and I would have been far better off just putting a 4A-GE in or just getting a more modern car. The end result is I have less than 50 hp at the wheels. These costs aren't even counting the money I spent getting random bits from Japan like a factory air intake pipe to make it all look more OEM. I couldn't have made a financially stupider modification to the car apart from maybe cutting the springs.

I learned a fair bit along the way and all, so I guess that justifies stuff. I wouldn't get much more than 4 grand out of the car if I was to sell it.

 

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I dunno how many kms I did, not thousands because it wasn't certed, but more kms late at night tuning than I should have, back and forth from work quite a few times to use the hoist ect and one trackday where nothing broke except post headers downpipe which was nearly 50 years old 

A failed head gasket (and suspicious previous internal work to the engine) has stalled stopped it for now while I build the crown up. but all efi related stuff still going hard. I selected second hand parts that are always going to be available and cheap even when buying new. 

Future mods I may require, is a more robust tank setup, possibley a surge tank, but for the moment I've just drilled a hole into the base of the tank and have some an fittings making up an angled stand pipe. Tank has some factory baffles, and I've got fuel pressure gauge + alarm right infront of my eyeballs. 

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