igor Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 It's still a bollocks rule when swapping something that goes straight in using all factory option parts fitted to factory bolt holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 That makes no sense all by itself at the top of the page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 It's still a bollocks rule when swapping something that goes straight in using all factory option parts fitted to factory bolt holes.It makes perfect sense really, as even though the same chassis may have had different engine options, the supporting components can also differ in strength. Sure you can also swap the driveshaft from the higher spec model if it fits, however it's a blanket rule as trying to determine if a driveshaft is actually up to the spec of the engine output is very hard to do. It's better to be safe than sorry. Case in point, Camel pretzeled a driveshaft in his 1JZ powered Crown a few years back. Dunno if he had hoops, or even a cert at the time, but the shaft didn't take it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 ever since that info sheet came out, thats how ive been interpreting it- ie if its a modified shaft, -it has to have a loop if its had forced induction fitted- needs a loop if its had engine mods to the factory engine that result in 50% more power- needs a loop if it has had an engine swap that has resulted in 50% more power- needs a loop if it has had an engine swap that has resulted in a power increase of LESS than 50%- it DOESNT need a loop. ie i did a supra the other day, and according to wikipedia, the 1uz that replaced the original 1ggte turbo has less than a 50% increase in power, and the box and driveshaft is OE, so it doesnt need loops. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Mine did not require them. (just shy of doubling hp) really? my arse dyno must need re calibrating 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 if it has had an engine swap that has resulted in a power increase of LESS than 50%- it DOESNT need a loop. Oh. Well I stand corrected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 In saying that different certifiers probably interpret things differently 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 yes, before that info sheet there was no mention of an actual figure, it was worded as 'significant increase in power' so i guess it came down to judgement of what was 'significant' even now its a bit of a guess as to how much power something has got if its been modified. ie the supra i used ^ as an example, the 1uz that was put in was stock, complete with shitty log manifolds. if it had headers and an aftermarket ecu, then i would say it would need loops, as it would probably go over the 50% threshold. Dyno sheets are a waste of time as far as proving a power increase or lack of, as they are usually supplied by someone who doesnt want to fit loops. i had a guy once with a big dollar GTR with a T51R on it, that gave me a dyno sheet saying it only had 190kw, hah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Dyno sheets are a waste of time as far as proving a power increase or lack of, as they are usually supplied by someone who doesnt want to fit loops. Please don't get me wrong; I'm not taking shots at you mate. In fact after browsing your posts and huge contribution to this MB over the last few years I'm rating you as one of the good guys, (to the point where with Neil F retired I'll probably be booking you for my next cert!). I just have to ask, is that an official LVVTA policy or just a personal opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Just my opinion, and its not set in stone I have had a few people try that trick when the car obviously makes more power than the dyno sheet says if i was supplied a dyno sheet that was believable, and the reading matched the output likely from the modifications, then that would be acceptable. Happens a bit with wheel alignment reports as well, which are required for a vehicle with modified suspension, although thats easier to check to see if its semi accurate with an angle finder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangbug Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 It wasn't tuned yet (just a rich guestimate on guestimate ve and retarded timing) and the 2.2 was a 86hp dog I wonder how many times have hoops been engaged? And how many of those times was it due to dropping a fat skid That'd be interesting from a man in the know! Figure you'd hear a uj getting fucked before a driveshaft let go. (just interested, don't go spare ffs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 theres been a few examples we have been shown at training some in here http://lvvta.org.nz/documents/newsletters_pub/LVVTA_Newsletter_2015_Jan-April.pdf and here http://lvvta.org.nz/documents/newsletters_pub/LVVTA_Newsletter_2014_%20August-December.pdf my boss had a fairly serious failure that nearly wrote his hot rod off, this was a number of years ago. he did a big skid over some train tracks and some of the link bars let go, the diff rolled back, this tore the gearbox off the back of the engine, the pinion broke out of the diff still attached to the driveshaft, this all went flying out and was found around 100m away. it damaged both chassis rails, rear suspension, the tray floor, fuel tank, diff was bent, etc.....was a bit of a major. i remember seeing the trans sitting at his house when i was an apprentice, there wasnt much left of it. and a mate of his had a t bucket that the shaft let go on a full throttle run up the road, blew a big hole in the floor on the passenger side and he had a huge bruise on his arse where it gave him a slap have heard other stories of them going and causing carnage but dont know how much chinese whispers were involved 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Heard a story in the '80s about a rear drive Starlet rally car that somehow dropped the front end of the driveshaft and polevaulted off into the bush. Guess a driveshaft loop would have saved that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin'joe Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Heard a story in the '80s about a rear drive Starlet rally car that somehow dropped the front end of the driveshaft and polevaulted off into the bush. Guess a driveshaft loop would have saved that one. similar to the 3tgte powered KE70 i knew of. used modified 4k drivehaft and STD 4k diff. suffice to say, was not up to the extra power and result was similar. had he swapped my 2tg for his oddessy, we would have both won !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr2 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Just my opinion, and its not set in stone I have had a few people try that trick when the car obviously makes more power than the dyno sheet says if i was supplied a dyno sheet that was believable, and the reading matched the output likely from the modifications, then that would be acceptable. Happens a bit with wheel alignment reports as well, which are required for a vehicle with modified suspension, although thats easier to check to see if its semi accurate with an angle finder Cheers mate, thanks and respect for the honest reply. I have a feeling we'll bang heads from time to time on this MB but will maintain a mutual respect. The big question has to be; when are you going to start a thread on your latest build? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingbrick Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Or just accept Clint as a GC and realise driveshaft loops are not actually a big deal 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderwebfx Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Or just accept Clint as a GC and realise driveshaft loops are not actually a big deal I agree. I don't understand why it is such a big deal. For the sake of $80 (or $160 if you need two) and a little bit of modification, you could potentially save $1000's of damage. A driveshaft hoop was the very first thing I did once I got my one piece made up. So straight forward and simple to do. (Used BNT kit) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bling Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 If you're going to butt heads with someone, who dedicates a lot of time to answer a million questions to do with certs, then perhaps just don't post. Thread is for questions, not arguments etc. Just my uncerted opinion. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingbrick Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Bling for president ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavenYak Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 A vehicle is not required to be certified to the Low Volume Vehicle Code, provided that the safe performance of the vehicle is not compromised, where the only modification to the vehicle is the fitting of an engine other than that fitted by the vehicle manufacturer, and that the engine:(a ) is of the same or less capacity or power output; and (b ) is of the same configuration; and (c ) the fuel type is not changed from petrol to diesel or vice-versa; and (d ) has the same type of fuel induction system; and (e ) has the same weight, location, and centre of gravity; and (f ) is of the same design and casting family of cylinder block and cylinder head(s). So just to clarify - if changing from carb to EFI, a cert would be required, or in fact if the engine makes more power at all. In particular, changing from a 4AF (95HP supposedly) to a 4AGE - this would legally need a cert, yes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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