cletus Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 If these are the factory specs - what should happen if my car has a shorter ride height than what is stated in the guide? say i'm running an 290mm ride height? I might take this info with me if an amendment hasnt been made to the shit rule, and try and battle my case with it. As it stands at the moment- if thats the factory specs, then its no more than half a degree over that, regardless of height. that half a degree IS the allowance. i checked an mx5 last week at around that height you mentioned and it was a fair bit over, im not sure how its going to go cause the adjusters were maxed out. i can see some extra adjustment from slotted mounting holes may be a necessary option for some cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 i can see some extra adjustment from slotted mounting holes may be a necessary option for some cars ... Do they really think these rules are going to stop the halfwits driving their pieces of shit round on cut bump stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 with their fake rota mags?... regardless of the rule change, its up to each person to decide it they want to follow it/get a cert. there will always be people who wont get certs (the halfwits you talk about) so therefore the rule changes do not apply to them. I don't think it is their intention that buy changing the rules they will remove all "unsafe" vehicles from the road, more that those who decide to do thing correctly will be "safer". I use the words unsafe and safe with a grain of salt as I am well aware you and others will likely go on to tell me/the world that its not proven that camber and stretch is unsafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Like many rule changes, the only people that it affects is those that abide by them. There are still going to be those that continue to operate outside the rules...so you have to ask what is the point in producing these blanket rules - surely a guideline as to what appropriate levels of camber are, and the certifiers dealing with it on a case by case "is it safe" basis would be more appropriate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 While I agree, the only issue I can see is what has been discussed earlier. Basically people saying oh well he got certed for these wheels and this much stretch and this much camber so why cant I etc. And then when someone knows someones brothers uncles kid and certs him for something relatively outrageous, then it ends up being a shit storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Solution = everyone get logbooks/authority cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 So is it half a degree/30 minutes past what the maximum manufacturers tolerance is? ie: if it is (as above example) 1 degree 8 minutes the manufacturers spec +/- 30 minutes manufacturers tolerance does that mean it can go as far as 1 degree 38 minutes (spec + half degree legal change) or can it go to 2 degrees 8 minutes (spec + half degree legal change + half degree manufacturers tolerance) Admittedly if someone goes to the max 2 degrees 8 minutes then all it takes is a hefty bump to put it over but this is just a hypothetical question.. Also how are cops going to enforce this? Eye-o-meter? I can't imagine a road surface would be a particularly ideal surface to be taking accurate measurements from with all the undulations and road camber taken into account. Any wheel alignment guy will know that some cars don't even have specs available. Also some cars need x amount of weight in each seat anda full tank, spare tyre etc etc to make the car aligned correctly. If the purpose of this is to stop stupid camber (ie what you see on the yellathrush sites etc) then surely a more reasonable and easily enforceable rule could be set.. ie if you can see air under the tyre tread 35mm in from the sidewall. (example) This shouldn't affect too many of my cars so its not a problem but it does seem a particularly overkill law.. Also like those above have said - those that run 30mm of the ground with no cert are going to run 6 degrees of camber with no cert so this law is not going to change 2/3rds of fuck all.. To them you can only get one pink sticker at a time and the fines don't even factor in anymore - its just another form of hire purchase.. I would like to see (for my own curiosity) the difference between 1 degree, 2 degree and 3 degrees camber on the same vehicle and see how it affects the amount of the tread on the road.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civic_zr Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 quick question, not sure if its been covered before, can multiple wheel sizes be certified on one plate? I run 13x6.5, 14x6 and 15x7 wheels a different times, and would hate to get a pinkie from an anal cop for running the wrong size wheel. The over all rolling radius is within 5% of each other, thus shouldn't effect the certified height outside of the allowances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Night Shamalayan Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Kk, you should post that post on the lvvta forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poo Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Ok, posting for a mate. Does the cert plate have to go in the engine bay? My mate is building a '32 roadster pickup and would like the plate inside the cab. He wants a 'clean' engine bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Kk, you should post that post on the lvvta forum.Don't belong to the forum and don't you need to be a certifier to belong?Although even if I did it would most probably start a war of hate from the certifiers TBH... Unkeen - LOL Does the cert plate have to go in the engine bay?Mine was on the firewall inside and up high behind the dash on my T-Bucket (admittedly the dash was not big so it was easy enough to see when you stuck your head under the dash) Not saying that is right but it was there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfels Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 pretty sure it can go anywhere on the car aslong as its easy to get at and read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoKer Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 yup : seen them in boot/door jams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Night Shamalayan Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Kk, you should post that post on the lvvta forum.Don't belong to the forum and don't you need to be a certifier to belong?Although even if I did it would most probably start a war of hate from the certifiers TBH. Nah I'm a member on there and have been throwing my two cents in. http://lvvta.proboards.com/index.cgi?bo ... 240&page=1 There's a special certifiers only section, but the tech section is all John doe/joe bloggs you and me people asking questions to actual certifiers. Pretty handy info on there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 i can see some extra adjustment from slotted mounting holes may be a necessary option for some cars ... Do they really think these rules are going to stop the halfwits driving their pieces of shit round on cut bump stops. probably not. my personal opinion is some of these rules are an effort by LVVTA to keep a professional image in the eyes of the govt, as well as improving road safety. Remember the rumors a while ago about adjustable platforms being banned? the camber thing is a result of that. there was some drama about x amount of fatal accidents involving cars with adjustable platform suspension (most of which werent certified) and the AA/someone wanted them banned, that was brought up at a training session, and we were asked our opinion on them. the other "improvement" to the rules mentioned was a limit on spring rates for road use which will probably come later. the certifiers dealing with it on a case by case "is it safe" basis would be more appropriate? thats actually how it alway has been, one of the first boxes on the suspension check sheet says something along the lines of 'no excessive wheel alignment angles'. problem with that is each certifier has a different idea on whats excessive. i used to work off the outside of the tread still touched the ground and it drove safe and didnt look stupid, then it was ok. Solution = everyone get logbooks/authority cards? the reasoning for the authority card deal is generally the cars are motorsport vehicles that have a legitimate reason to be a bit more extreme, and dont get driven by flatpeakers full of woodstocks at 3 in the morning. can it go to 2 degrees 8 minutes (spec + half degree legal change + half degree manufacturers tolerance) YES, THATAlso how are cops going to enforce this? Eye-o-meter? . Not going to be an issue after cert, too hard to expect cops to know what the specs are or how to measure it. theres no mention of it on the plate either so theres nothing to stop someone cranking the camber back in afterwards. however in the event of an accident, LVVTA can pull out the file and show photos and a wheel alignment report to say it was fine and legal when it was certed- ASS COVERED, OWNERS FAULT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 quick question, not sure if its been covered before,can multiple wheel sizes be certified on one plate? I run 13x6.5, 14x6 and 15x7 wheels a different times, and would hate to get a pinkie from an anal cop for running the wrong size wheel. The over all rolling radius is within 5% of each other, thus shouldn't effect the certified height outside of the allowances yes can cert different wheel sizes, need to do paperwork and brake tests for each set of wheels. never been asked to do it, would cost extra though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 As has been said, this new rule is only in it's infancy. I would expect, that in the fullness of time the rule will be ammended. The LVVT technical committee (Probably I would say with the help of the enthusiests committee themselves) will draw up some forumula based of the various diamentions/geometries of a given chassis/suspention combo. From that there will be a table or formula dreamed up that will say how much camber that car can have. Given that there are LOTS of guys who build cars who aren't "flatpeakers full of woodstock at 3am", (Allthough more likely it's 9% codys) they themselves will initiate the changes. The background chatter is that the clubs/forums are raging hard about it, and want change. Given the number of guys who rule at CAD etc, in time submissions will be made (with supporting evidence/ arguments) supporting a fairer more forgiving system. I think what's brought about the factory spec thing as a baseline, is that not all syspention is created equal. And some old cars really were/are shit. Things like wheel offsets, length of arms, etc, all play into the actual amount tyre contact that can be had. Shit will all come out in the wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camo_78 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 hey cletus, asking this on behalf of a mate.her 97 legnum has factory smoked glass on the rear side windows,what she wants to know is as thats factory can we lay a tint film over it,so effectively double tinting the windows??its for her 12 month old son to give him a little more protection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durty Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Night Shamalayan Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Why is the limit between width of hub spacers and hub adaptors different when going for cert? Bolt on spacers are limited to 20mm where Bolt on hub (stud pattern) adaptors are limited to 27mm... aren't they effectively the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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