Diffs

[Mark_Fleming]

Cheers to both Johnny.Race and Taistrom.......

[yetchh]

@johnny.race what's the deal with the truetrac lsd's into a 2006 hilux rwd drive diff. Are they a straight bolt in? (with preloading of course) are there any other things needed parts wise? Sick of spinning one wheel all the time, there's a hilux 3.58 lsd on the tard for $1100 but for the price I thought I might as well get a better option. 

 

[johnny.race]

6 minutes ago, yetchh said:

@johnny.race what's the deal with the truetrac lsd's into a 2006 hilux rwd drive diff. Are they a straight bolt in? (with preloading of course) are there any other things needed parts wise? Sick of spinning one wheel all the time, there's a hilux 3.58 lsd on the tard for $1100 but for the price I thought I might as well get a better option. 

 

Mate, I've never had anything to do with fitting a Truetrac into Hilux housing. I'd expect it to be bolt in with nothing special though. If I was doing it, I'd spend an extra $50 and go with the solid pinion spacer too. Even the good/tight OEM Hilux ones you come across are no match for good aftermarket offerings when it comes to lock up. They do remain popular though. I'm selling that 3.58 LSD on TM at the moment. It actually sold today - get paid for/uplifted tomorrow. Late model 3 point something :1 LSD's are always worth reasonable money. A grand for a good one is a good deal. They can go for alot more. 

[yetchh]

1 hour ago, johnny.race said:

Mate, I've never had anything to do with fitting a Truetrac into Hilux housing. I'd expect it to be bolt in with nothing special though. If I was doing it, I'd spend an extra $50 and go with the solid pinion spacer too. Even the good/tight OEM Hilux ones you come across are no match for good aftermarket offerings when it comes to lock up. They do remain popular though. I'm selling that 3.58 LSD on TM at the moment. It actually sold today - get paid for/uplifted tomorrow. Late model 3 point something :1 LSD's are always worth reasonable money. A grand for a good one is a good deal. They can go for alot more. 

 

Hah that was you selling it.. Damnit. If id known I would have bought it. Should have posted here earlier, I actually asked you a question about it on the auction before this. 

 

[Toddy415]

Still building 9" heads? whats a rebuilt 9" head with 3.0 gears and true track worth now?

[440bbm]

Just for your info, yes the eaton truetrac heads are like a factory replacement. Just install and set up like usual. AFAIK they are like that in the hilux, ford 9" and mopar options. 
WAY better than any of the factory lsd types. Just be careful to run the correct fluid, do not use any of the lsd oils, and think even the synthetic options are a no go, just run basic 80-90 or 90-140 mineral gear oils.

[smokin'joe]

holy thread dredge by me, apart from talking very nicely to @johnny.race, and paying moonbeams on courier, is there any one South Island that is truely recommended, not heresay, for axle shortening.
wanting to replicate Toyota RT132GT axles for F-series LSD........ hopefullt able to use Estima axles as plentiful and cheap donors.

and no, TDS in CHCH, will not be getting the job

[GregT]

If it's straightforward cut and respline, ask Dick Chapman at Proturn in Sydenham.

The Formula 5000 boys use him to make halfshaft outers out of something Japanese.

[CUL8R]

Justin Neil Engineering?

[smokin'joe]

2 hours ago, CUL8R said:

Justin Neil Engineering?

spoke to him earlier, on a recommendation.

not trying to cheap out, but after the interaction with TDS, i would doubt i would allow him to do a bearing/seal change

[Esky_addict]

Hey @johnny.racehave you or anyone else for that matter had any experience with shimming a BW type lsd center? 

 

[cletus]

I think @RUNAMUCK has some experience in this area via the use of stiffer springs in the clutches 

Also need to make sure the cones and housing are not worn so the cone bottoms out and stops working 

apparently they can have issues with stripping the splines out of the cones as the spline is narrow, the one in my vg survived fine though and that had a turbo v8 for awhile and I may have done wheelspins once or twice  

[RUNAMUCK]

15 hours ago, Esky_addict said:

Hey @johnny.racehave you or anyone else for that matter had any experience with shimming a BW type lsd center? 

 

Yeah I know about this.

As Clint says, you need to make sure that the back face of the cone is bottomed in the housing. (These can be machined to re-invigorate a worn out set if you know an engineer/machinist)

There's actually a semi decent video on farcebook about it. (I'll try find it) 

However, there's a couple of things this guy gets wrong, so I'll bring those to you attention if I find that video too)

[RUNAMUCK]

https://www.facebook.com/MirabitoPerformance/videos/9755750491111395/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

 

So this gut shows a decent step by step. (I dunno if he fixed the sound or not)  

The bits he got wrong (just imho, I don't claim to be an expert/know what I'm doing)  is, when he had his cones machined down, he's "had the backs machined flat" but these diffs rely on friction from the tapered faces of the cones on the housings to grab. So by doing that, he's actually reduced that friction area quite a bit. (It's also possible to machine out the inside of the housing/you can do a bit of both if needed) the other thing he's cocked up, is just throwing in a really thick shim, and calling it good. 

What this actually does is, jams the side gears hard into the idler pinions. These gears are supposed to be in proper mesh. And while "it might be fine" it doesn't sit right with me. I'd want proper oil clearances/mesh etc. Also worth nothing that as the cones/housings wear, the cone sinks into the housing, and the clearance between these gears opens up. (They basically slowly fall out of mesh) and eventually will climb over each other/blow to bits when the tooth contact surface area reduces. (They usually get noisy/ develop "chuckle" before this) 

And lastly, he put the fucker together dry. It would have taken and extra few seconds to give everything a coat of lube during  assembly. Yeah it's gonna be submerged. But with everything so tight, it'll take a while.  And that's just doing to result in wear.

The book (I'm not sure if it's here or at my dad's atm) states that you measure from the mating face in the housing halves to the face of the taper cone. And from this you extrapolate what thickness shim you need. The book also lists the proper free length that the springs are supposed to be.  The old boy once had new springs made. (I don't know if new ones are available?) I've got an LSD centre for my Val just awaiting my to buy new shims (I'd actually forgotton) and the springs in that were under the correct length. 

Perhaps watch the vid, and then re-read this post so it makes sence. 

I'll dig out the book, and post that critical info when I can.

[440bbm]

why not just stick a known bulletproof truetrac in it and not have to worry about all that polava.

job done and move on with something that actually needs a technical fingering.

[RUNAMUCK]

I can reinvigorate a stock one for like $50. 

That wouldn't even pay for the shipping for a truetrac......

[Bearded Baldy]

Name of the book please @RUNAMUCK.

Sounds like one i need on my shed bookshelf.

[RUNAMUCK]

2 minutes ago, Bearded Baldy said:

Name of the book please @RUNAMUCK.

Sounds like one i need on my shed bookshelf.

It's a factory Chrysler VH valiant workshop manual.

I'll look in the garage over the weekend, and post some pictures here.

I also have a manual for a VL commodore. They used the same diff, except they are a factory 4 spider. (While still being the 25 spline BW M75) however while a lot stronger than a two spider unit, the 25 spline axle becomes the next weakest link in the chain. ( @cletus  did a whizzer job of almost breaking one)

[Esky_addict]

22 hours ago, RUNAMUCK said:

Yeah I know about this.

As Clint says, you need to make sure that the back face of the cone is bottomed in the housing. (These can be machined to re-invigorate a worn out set if you know an engineer/machinist)

There's actually a semi decent video on farcebook about it. (I'll try find it) 

However, there's a couple of things this guy gets wrong, so I'll bring those to you attention if I find that video too)

Thanks ill check out the video, seen a few of his but musta missed this one. 

I must be on the right track, I had already machined a bit off the end of the cones, not alot about 1mm. They are pretty warn so it's never going to be perfect anyway.

I was a bit suspect of the diff so I pulled the head out for a squizz and found the cross was shattered, so I suspect as you say the cones have worn that much that much that mesh opened up too much and allowed them to bind up and break.

I found a forum from the states with a lot of info, it had the measurements you speak of but I can't use them as the diff in question is actually a holden salisbury not a BW but they seem to be basically identical, I was also pleasantly surprised to see it had been 4 pinion swapped and as far as I know they use BW internals in them when they do this, im not sure if the cones and side gears are GMH or BW units though, BW would be good as they are still available new.

Plan so far is to assemble one half on an axle vertically and then shim the side gear up until the backlash is almost all gone, then do the same with the other half.

Im guessing the mesh will have a little bit of wiggle room as its constantly changing as the cones wear down. Anyone know how far they are from bottoming out in the housing with new cones?  

21 hours ago, 440bbm said:

why not just stick a known bulletproof truetrac in it and not have to worry about all that polava.

job done and move on with something that actually needs a technical fingering.

Yeah I ordered one yesterday to build a 2nd diff, since its offset for a different ratio I cant use it in this diff but may i aswell get this one back together for bugger all to keep the car rolling, learn something, and then keep it as a spare. 

 

 

 

[RUNAMUCK]

1 hour ago, Esky_addict said:

 Anyone know how far they are from bottoming out in the housing with new cones?  

 

 

 

 

I suspect that it's more the housing that wears tbh. The cones will be heat treated, the housings more likely not.