johnny.race

Diffs

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Replacing the axle bearings in the EH have removed the old bearings and retainer rings, pressed the new bearings on. Best to just press the retainer rings on or heat them up and srink them on? Theres a rubber lip seal in the bearing so cant put to much heat in that area.

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I usually sit a bit of pipe over the axle, and beat fuck out of it with a sledgehammer to drive lock rings on. I got caught out recently when using heavy wall pipe. And the ID of the pipe was less than the diameter of the axle. The pipe bottomed, and I couldnt get the bearing home. Figured it out eventually, and used a drift to space the pipe up.enough to drive it all the way home.

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I use the retaining ring to press the bearing on. Doing it like this means all the force of the ring is concentrated on the part of the bearing you want to be pushing on. The bearing and the ring seat together. There is not  hammer or torch in sight when fitting bearings and the operation seems smooth as fuck. A decent press and appropriate jig helps though.

Read the fine print in the blurb TIMKEN enclose with each of their bearing sets .... don't use heat it says the last time I read it.  Re using heat - I'm guessing the same school that taught you to use heat on the shrink ring also taught you to use heat on the end of an axle before you went at it with a piece of HSS. Its all oldschool thinking I reckon. You can tell when a ring has been put on using heat ... on a Hilux axle the rubber seal is all blistered/fucked looking and the BW's and 9 Inches sometimes have a blue hue going on.

All that said though, I have never heard of any axle mishap occurring due specifically to what method was used to fit the retainer ring, but fuck hammering bearings.

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Yeah hammering bad. Mild controlled heat maybe ok but rubber/plastic seals kinda limits that to maybe 80c . If no seals you can go a little bit hotter but you don't want to start smoking the grease/oil

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You can buy job specific bearing heaters. 

I dont beat the bearing on. Even C3 bearings run a fraction of the interference that a lock ring does. Couple of taps is usually enough to seat the bearing. 

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Righto so no bashy bashy or heat needed. Thou I did learn a very good lesson dont over press the lock rings with a 63t press and two straight bits of steel supporting the bearing. I just thought I'll give it a wee bit more. Must have stretched the rings out shape the farking things fell off! So today armed with new lock rings I used the baby 10t bottle jack press and some better support plates, all went ace. Now to put it all back together.

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8 hours ago, yetchh said:

@johnny.race at do you think of this mod...

https://www.trademe.co.nz/2657542489

Mate, I have (decent) hands on experience in narrowing housings and axles. Re heads ... yeah I suppose so but more from a rebuild of whatever Ford or Hilux head is in front of me. And then, its either a spool or an OEM offering of some sort. This said, upon looking at where that link lead to, the things that popped into my head were - its not out of the ordinary to see axle length (spline) sticking right through side gear and into the center in a open differential head so some trimming might be required and the price. Its priced to take a chunk out of the lower end of current offerings on the aftermarket. I wonder if it requires its own sidegears that have been surfaced or something. Anyway, chur.

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13 hours ago, johnny.race said:

Mate, I have (decent) hands on experience in narrowing housings and axles. Re heads ... yeah I suppose so but more from a rebuild of whatever Ford or Hilux head is in front of me. And then, its either a spool or an OEM offering of some sort. This said, upon looking at where that link lead to, the things that popped into my head were - its not out of the ordinary to see axle length (spline) sticking right through side gear and into the center in a open differential head so some trimming might be required and the price. Its priced to take a chunk out of the lower end of current offerings on the aftermarket. I wonder if it requires its own sidegears that have been surfaced or something. Anyway, chur.

 

More for the fact that to me it looks like snake oil.. Its just metal on metal, no clutch packs no nothing, just a adding a spring loaded sandwich in between two spider gears trying to stop them spinning independently.. Unless I'm missing something.. 

 

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I've been doing a few heads and reckon the best bang for dollar in terms of kit purchase are these from onlineautoparts. Don't go through TM - deal with them direct and save. Check out the matching trans pan drip trays - churr!

 1759494461_20200605_121031(Large).thumb.jpg.b0896a8041956ade36c2c6bf9a694849.jpg

1074426327_20200605_120929(Large).thumb.jpg.9f01d4074d5c4bffb6c75679aa7097d0.jpg

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I ran a (home.made) one of these in my 1200. A rocket scientist (I mean an actual real deal rocket scientist) at datsun 1200.com made one for his rally car. I quizzed him out about the finer points of how they work, and then had a few made.  (Thanks Dad)

It was a lot better than an open diff. But not as good as a proper lsd. They work like this,

There is very little clearance between the channel where the pin which the idler pinions run on and the pin. The slot where is sits it more elliptical than semicircular. The springs which force the two halves apart mean than when you load the diff up, the plates try to rotate. This makes them shear against the pin. And they try to climb away from the pin. (Because of the shape of the slot) but since theres only one thou clearance it cant move far. 

So that rotational/shearing action jambs the plate against the side gear and prevents in from turning which locks the centre up.

They also used to be known as a "phantom grip" diff. 

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$700 seems spendy for them. they used to be $2-300, and aimed at guys who would weld centre to gain traction

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10 hours ago, yetchh said:

 

More for the fact that to me it looks like snake oil.. Its just metal on metal, no clutch packs no nothing, just a adding a spring loaded sandwich in between two spider gears trying to stop them spinning independently.. Unless I'm missing something.. 

 

Yeah the surface area of the friction that it relies on to jam the side gears is fuck all compared to even oem lsd units 

Looks like a less effective version of a lock right unit that costs similar. Although I guess there are applications where one of these might be too aggressive 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwt-1610-lr

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11 hours ago, RUNAMUCK said:

I ran a (home.made) one of these in my 1200. A rocket scientist (I mean an actual real deal rocket scientist) at datsun 1200.com made one for his rally car. I quizzed him out about the finer points of how they work, and then had a few made.  (Thanks Dad)

It was a lot better than an open diff. But not as good as a proper lsd. They work like this,

There is very little clearance between the channel where the pin which the idler pinions run on and the pin. The slot where is sits it more elliptical than semicircular. The springs which force the two halves apart mean than when you load the diff up, the plates try to rotate. This makes them shear against the pin. And they try to climb away from the pin. (Because of the shape of the slot) but since theres only one thou clearance it cant move far. 

So that rotational/shearing action jambs the plate against the side gear and prevents in from turning which locks the centre up.

They also used to be known as a "phantom grip" diff. 

 

That makes sense, just wedges itself in there. 

 

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Mechanical force causes friction. But yeah, those setups have less than 1/4 the friction area of even the basic OEM LSDs, as cletus says. Probably fine on gravel, but won't really provide that much help in many situations

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