engine building 101 reading material required

[Ned]

I thought my point was pretty clear. You want to learn about engines.

1) read a book.

Anyone know of some "engine building 101" videos/write ups (with pictures) that explain all the basics and terminology etc?

2) find an engine builder who's willing to educate you.

want to learn what I can before starting so when Joe bloggs engine builder spouts shit out at me, I can understand him

3) ask us about specifics.

and i dont want specifics, this was supposed to be a generic thread....

I'm not sure you grasp quite how big of a topic engine tuning is. You could have a 10 page thread on any specific part of an engine, and the problem is that somethings work in spite of a certain modification so there is a lot of misinformation surrounding building high performance motors, as xyz may work for one joker but be completely rubbish for another.

Is there any specific topic you want to talk about and we can probably give you the quick and dirty answers that you seek.

I get it, but all i want is some links to a place that teaches me the basics.

If i knew what i wanted to know, i wouldnt need to know as i want to know what i dont know.

examples, but not limited to;

why would one raise or lower the compression?

whats the difference between different pistons (like flat top, domed, whatever) and why would you run one over the other

valve sizes etc

terminology of stuff, as i know what a crank, rod, piston, valve, valve spring and cam are, but thats it. aka whats deck height, what do they really do when they hone the block etc.

[Rookie]

http://www.circletrack.com/tipstricks/4624_building_basics_first_engine/

I didn't read it but it seems like what you are after.

I completely agree with Cam on this, you don't have to be building an engine to have an engine builder talk to you.

[xsspeed]

I would go to tech books/library and have a browse there. Grab one of their books (will likely be similar to those trademe links) then you can read and google terminology etc

I would recommend finding a good k series specific manual - pref the toyota workshop manual - I have a 4age one and its been so useful above standard haynes stuff (which just refers to the workshop manual anyway)

[mjrstar]

Have a bit of a google/ buy a book of David Vizard tuning for BMC a series.. He covers off the why's and hows before getting too deep into things..

[My name is Russell]

I'm intersted in learning how to measure assemble engines at the moment also.

I just got out some car mans as they have some cool tips for measuring and assembly of motors. Figure if i know the engine inside out would be a good first step so pulled motor to bits, and in weekend went to pick a part pulled out a bottom end and and knew semi what to look for. new need to learn bout head

[Ned]

Cheers dave.

I know i dont need to be building an engine to talk to someone. But as soon as the engine builder mentions anything technical, i'll be lost. So want to learn about the terminology etc before i waste his time and get him to spoon feed me the information etc and me not being able to come to my own conclusions or really know what he means.

I'm finding it pretty hard to explain what i want from this thread, so sorry if it looks like i'm not grateful for the information, because i'm very happy with you lot all trying to help me.

I'll try one more time to put across what i want to know.

I cant give examples of what i want to learn, because i dont know what i dont know. I dont specifically want to know the examples i've given, i want to be able to have a conversation with an engine builder before going to talk to one.

I'll try explaining it in electronics.

If some guy came to me that knew nothing about electronics and wanted to modify a mega squirt, i wouldn't be able to explain how to do things and give him ideas to ponder over, i would only be able to tell him what to do and that wont do him any good if he wants to learn.

If he understands the difference between a transistor and a fet, and the difference between a P and N channel one of them, and knows what Ohms law is, then i can explain how he can modify his MS to run his own coil drivers etc and tell him what parts to use and with what spec, and he'll be able to understand why to use part x instead of part y or part z.

So for a person who knows nothing, it's impossible to know what to search for. So if someone asked the question i asked about motors but he asked it about electronics, and he has never even heard of even a resistor, i would provide links on ohms law, transistors, resistors, capacitors, diodes and all the other basics of electronics.

I wouldnt offer him help on figuring out how to use the RDS of the fet to measure current flowing through it. Granted thats a nice thing to offer him, and he'll want to know that at some point, just not when he doesnt know what a mosfet is.

I hop that explains my position a bit better?

[Toucan]

Get a David Vizard book

[peteretep]

and pull a motor apart with its associated manual

[Styles]

Ned, I've got a couple of old engine building manuals that you can have. They're not so much about modifiying, more about rebuilding and maintenance by the look, but may be a good start? I haven't really used them at all, they've sat in a cupboard at work for the last 5 years, I "inherited" from a predecessor.

Chuck me a PM with your address and ph number and I can probably drop them off to you.

[Rookie]

http://angryengineer.blogspot.co.nz/2005/05/dynamic-compression-ratio.html

Another good link describing why you mess with static compression.

[xsspeed]

I think your point of what you are trying to achieve is clear Ned, and so are the suggestions

Get a book, read it, google heaps of shit, ask questions, think of it as a ladder of discovery (I am on rung 1 still lol)

Get a workshop manual and pull apart a k series

[Roman]

I've got some engine books at home too... Bought them before I plunged in the deep end and bought a blown motor in parts to rebuild when I was in a similar situation.

You're welcome to borrow them if you want to have a read.

But yeah, I reckon best way is just throw yourself in the deep end. Buy a spare 7k and an engine stand, pull it all apart and clean it up etc.

It's nice knowing the terms for what's what, but being able to visualise everything, knowing how big valves physically are, etc etc helps to no end in my opinion.

Either way, the best possible advice I think I can give, is that if you are planning to rebuilt a motor.... Leave the one in your car, and buy a second one to play with.

Keep your car running while you work on it, then swap them over and sell the other one, so it's cost neutral but much better than having a car off the road to 10 gazillion years when you inevitably find some complications etc.

Also maybe dont read up too much on engines, it might dissuade you from the 7K

[sr1600]

I've got some engine books at home too... Bought them before I plunged in the deep end and bought a blown motor in parts to rebuild when I was in a similar situation.

You're welcome to borrow them if you want to have a read.

But yeah, I reckon best way is just throw yourself in the deep end. Buy a spare 7k and an engine stand, pull it all apart and clean it up etc.

It's nice knowing the terms for what's what, but being able to visualise everything, knowing how big valves physically are, etc etc helps to no end in my opinion.

Either way, the best possible advice I think I can give, is that if you are planning to rebuilt a motor.... Leave the one in your car, and buy a second one to play with.

Keep your car running while you work on it, then swap them over and sell the other one, so it's cost neutral but much better than having a car off the road to 10 gazillion years when you inevitably find some complications etc.

Also maybe dont read up too much on engines, it might dissuade you from the 7K

This is the way im doing it, always wanted to build my own motor (something i find interesting)

Alot of people have talked me out of it saying it could be a expensive 300 revolutions if i miss something but where is the fun in that

Always wondered if somewhere has night classses for this as there are alot of beginner tricks/checks that could help alot.

[BlownCorona]

i did an engine rebuild (type 1 VW engine no less) class when i was doing the pre emplyment aircraft engineering course.

that class took a couple weeks and taught me all the basics about engine rebuilding. im sure you could find something similar to that as a stand alone class.

im now about to really hot up an old 18r, so very similar in vein to your 7k project.

[Brock-Lee]

Also, don't do 50 billion researches and then go to an actual engine builder and tell him he's wrong haha.

[Steelies]

want to learn about the terminology etc before i waste his time

bad move!

^^ like brocklee said - get him to teach you from scratch. i'm sure you wont tell a pro they're wrong but you get the idea.

nab an engine builder like you'd tame a stray cat with cheese blocks.. i managed to build a relationship with a local engine guy by getting him to help me with the velo bike villiers. lots of hours listening to often painfully boring yarns in a freezing workshop, asking him everything and telling him nothing.

called the other day to ask about freshening the 4age up and he said he'd be happy for me to do all the work there, as he guides me through.

[Truenotch]

Building engines is easy if you don't fuck it up.

There should be loads of info on performance K series engines floating around... Any engine specific manual will give you the right measurements and teach you what you need to know. There's no real black magic in it, it's just a bunch of mechanical parts that need to work in unison.

[cute wee gem]

Why don't you pull a 7k to bits, and then report back to this thread asking certain questions as you take it to bits and build it back up? If you're looking for more power, then let us know your goals (at the very start) as it will help decide (and so people can also explain why)

First thing you should know when pulling it to bits, is to keep everything in the correct order that you plan to keep. (i.e main bearing caps 1 to 5 in order they come off, pistons in order 1 to 4 and which way faces the front of the block (piston tops and bearing caps are some times stamped, if not do it as it makes life so much easier)

And be super careful not to scratch the crank journals and bearings when you pull pistons and crank out - if there is a lip in the top of the bore you can break rings also (may not matter depending on what you plan to re-use)

These are some things that might be over looked, pulling one to pieces takes a few tricks too..

We can't tell you how to dissasemble/assemble an engine in one page, so break it down in steps and then nothing will get missed out or fucked up.

[cute wee gem]

Things like compression ratio and so on can be explained when you give us a goal as to what you want from your engine. i.e do you want a turbo street engine with mild boost and good response, a drag turbo setup with lots of boost or do you want to build a n/a screamer (don't use a 7k for this lol) or just a mild n/a streeter?

[Ned]

I should not have started this thread when i'm tired as fuck and super cranky.

ok, thanks for the help guys.

Reason i'm not going to pull my spare motor to bits;

a ) i have no place to put it and leave all nicely marked out and able to be kept clean for a year

b ) i know how an engine works

So i want to rebuild my spare 7K. Problem is that you cant buy sweet aftermarket shit for them, as nobody is stupid enough to build up a race spec 7K

All you can get is rods

So, i'll need to get custom made pistons, and i wouldnt have a clue how to spec what sort of pistons i want. Granted mr engine builder can spec something, but i would like to understand why he will spec the piston the way he specs it. Not because i dont trust mr engine builder, but because i want to know how changing specific parameters in an engine make a difference.

Pulling an engine to pieces will teach me a lot, i get that, and i have a spare 4K to pull to bits if i want to do that and i probably will do that, but that wont teach me shit about how changing the type of piston changes the specs of the motor. And it also wont tech me that deck height is the spacing from gudgeon pin to top of piston or whatever it actually is (one term i know exists, but dont know what it actually means)

I dont want to throw a cheque book at the starlet, i want to be involved in how it comes together. Instead of going to an engine builder saying "here is a 7K, i want it to make 100KW ATM, go do it" or "Heres $6000, go do something with it", i would want to be able to discuss with the engine builder what can be done to the motor with the budget i have and decide what option to go with and make an educated decision that i was involved in.

I'll PM some of the people with kind offers of books etc and will read the links provided etc and will starty reading, then when i know a bit more, i will google stuff i dont know and then when i'm ready to start specifying things, i'll go talk to an engine builder and/or ask you lot for specific advice etc.

Thanks again guys.