mikuni Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 How tall is a 3SGE?I went and measured my engine bay and it's approx 620mm from the crossmember to the top of the aircleaner in the 1159 HB Viva. I imagine the aircleaner is a bit off the bonnet so there is quite a bit of room to play with. Problem is the rack sits in front of the crossmember so you'll either need to mount something quite forward, or best to either get a rear sump motor or make a custom / modified sump. Measured a 4AGE I had lying around and it's just under 500mm tall (measurements were a bit wonky due to placement of engine amongst pile of crap ). 4AGE is a good choice for weight, size, balance etc. Could be quite "top heavy" though if you go for a tall engine, rotary is nice and low centre of G. Not sure if it's been said on here yet but Datsun A-series fit really well... Beams is 530mm from the bottom of the block to the top of the plenum. Add another 100 or so on there for the sump and thats assuming that you have it positioned exactly right. It also assumes you have to move the steering rack, which is a little bit dumb. You can get an idea how tall they are from that picture. People often have to lower the cross member in old escorts etc to get it to fit, which isn't ideal for ride height or handling. Not saying it can't happen, just that it isn't really the most straight forward options when you read through what Alex is after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_m Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Those rover K series motors are pretty sweet little motors, could get a 1.8 for a little bit more poke. And like said, ridiculously light. Think they are pretty gutless from memory though what about a suzuki cappicino motor haha 3 cyl 660cc turbo. Only 47kw though! Having stuffed a big 2L into a small car (sr20 in a datsun 1200) I would steer away from the likes of sr20/3sge/fj20 just too tall or wide imo for what you want to achieve (tidy enine bay etc) Can definitely be done though turbo 4age probably fits the bill quite well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I read awhile about a guy who stuck a 4AFE in a (can't bloody remember) with a small turbo on the side. Made around 170hp, and reckoned it picked up better than a 4AGE due to the heads being designed for low down torque as opposed to high RPM power. I think he used 4AF pistons and head on a GZE block? Or maybe he was going to if he killed it. Can't quite remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Umm, I think the economy part of the argument has been forgotten.I would consider duratec of the smaller capacities, or a 1.4 K series Rover. Heaps of power from both, legendary economy, plenty of RWD adaptor bits available ex UK. Also the K series must be the lightest 4 cylinder not from a motorbike. Were these the ones used in the MGF? That shat headgaskets like no tomorrow? Pretty easy fix, but I'd be careful about picking up one from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacker_Sam. Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Im a great fan of the K series and Its bigger brother the T series. as found in the 220 Tomcat. But I'm British & sick in the head. A big part of the head gasket problem is caused by lack of servicing & people not keeping an eye on the temp gauge. The VVC K series found in the MGF is the one to get. There was a chap in Chch that put one in a little rover 114GTi. That thing hauled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Don't know how common those VW 1.4 twin charged engines are? /not sure if would be possible to RWD them "1.4 R4 16v TSI/TFSI 90-133kW Based on the EA111, this new engine was announced at the 2005 Frankfurt Motor Show, to be first used in the Mk5 Golf GT, the 125 kW 1.4 litre TSI engine is a "Twincharger", and uses both a turbocharger and a supercharger. Its displacement downsizing leads to improved fuel economy, with 14% more power than the 2.0 FSI, but consuming 5% less fuel. The mechanical supercharger compressor, driven at 1.5 times the speed of the crankshaft, mainly operates at low engine speeds from tick-over up to 2,400 revolutions per minute (rpm) to increase low-end torque. At engine speeds just above idle, the belt-driven supercharger provides a boost pressure of 1.2 bars (17.4 psi). The turbocharger assumes full effectiveness at middle revs, and the engine map disengages the clutch-controlled supercharger at a maximum upper limit of 3,500 rpm; the supercharger will then be bypassed once the turbocharger spools up and reaches sufficient speed to provide adequate boost in the upper rev-ranges. " Probably a silly idea anyhow. I say keep the rotary. I tell people that aren't on the internet about your car and how sweet it is. Please don't change it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-W-G Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Go zetec or mazda BPT. Easy RWD lots of after market support and are cheap as chips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dell'orto Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 BPT isnt that economical, zetec would be a good option. 2ZZGE would actually be a good option if it weren't such a bitch to RWD them. F20C perhaps? Though I think they're worth a decent chunk of coin still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoKer Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 what motor is in a MX5? get one of them : 1.8L and all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-W-G Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 what motor is in a MX5? get one of them : 1.8L and all that The BP, the N/A version of the BPT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoKer Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 BP then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 wow- after some time riding my bike followed by time in the sun drinking bourbon (I dont work mondays...) i have come back to this thread and tonnes of ideas. to answer some suggestions.. Geoff- we cant buy another car right now. Well we could but then we cant store it as because were we have the housetruck parked up a its sort of an unwritten rule not to have too many cars and other shit. plus adding another car always brings in many extra costs - cars being holes in the ground for money. But main reason is that I love driving the viva! Shit..if i didnt prefer riding my pushbikes to work on sunny days I would even commute all the time in the viva. I did use it heaps over winter on shitty days- and it adds up. So what I want is to have my cake (a fast Viva) and eat it too (that I can drive without busting the bank) So some of the engine suggestions might just be a tad expensive- I'm guessing without much knowledge on them that the beams engines being fairly newish etc are not cheap to buy? And RWD boxes to suit them? Plus are the ecus that run them standalone and easy to wire into a very basic car? I think I'll most likely be looking at a rear sump. The rotary is front sumped but it works because the engine is mounted fairly far forwards. The beams sump looks a pain to change? Ideally something with a good ol steel sump pan that I can change would be good. What are the sumps on 4ages like? I think mx5s are alloy- but are they front or rear sump. I can look this up but im sure someone here will know... I would love a 1uz. I loved the idea of one when Dave first started his celica up and hannah needed no convincing after she went a drive in it. But I think just too big, heavy and thirsty for what I now want this car to be. I know many think I should leave the car alone and just build something else- but I have always liked other peoples car builds when they go through constant evolutions to get to something which is close to ideal, and then changing to suit new needs or wants. I think it helps that my Viva is such a good solid base that I have owned for years now and know it well inside and out. If it were not for certification requirements in NZ I reckon more people would be constantly changing major items and modifying things on their cars in a never ending quest to get to that well sorted point. Borgwieser- the little multipla is still on my mind. I have yet to ask the fella if he'll sell it. But thats another thing... Joe- steam power would be good. with a steam punk theme. Honda engines- I remember a friend who had a 1600cc crx. it went bloody well AND it was incredibly cheap to run. But someone told me honda engines, except the s2000, rotate anti clockwise? If true I'm guessing thats why they have not been adapted to be used in rwd cars? Sam- you are sick in the head. But thats fine. rover K series- i looked a while back and it seemed they are hard to get or expensive in NZ. And then what box to suit? I know type 9's are used in blighty but how easy? Any ideas on how heavy some of these suggested engines are- 4age, ca18det, mazda mx5 bp or turbo bpt? When plonking a turbo onto one of the above non turbo engines how much boost can you get away with before stock injectors become not man enough and how well do stock ecus cope with boost? My idea is to be able to at least start off with the stock ecu and get it running at low boost. Buying aftermarket ecus costs name brand bikkies and this car is all about small budget brand bikkies. I can always upgrade later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 OK- found this on CA18 and SR20 engine weights- doe sit sound about right to you datsun boys out there? Bugger all heavier than my 12A if so... stolen from a similar thread elsewhere "Nissan Fast says both engines weigh 95Kg bare. That's everything between sump and rocker cover but no manifolds, plenum, turbo, alt, flywheel, steering pump, etc. (not too sure if it includes water pump, ignition) Flywheel CA 12.3 - SR 8.9 Front pulley CA 3.231 - SR 2.45 Oil cooler CA 1.55 - SR 1.315 Plenum CA 3.4 - SR 2.778 Inlet manifold CA 2.081- SR 3.661 A frame etc CA 2.6 - SR 0.84 EGR SR 0.63 Alternator CA 5.46 - SR 7.523 Starter CA 3.392- SR 3.1 Clutch + cover CA 6.63 - SR 7.9 engine mounts CA 1.5 - SR 1.1 engine plate CA 0.735 CA 42.8 - SR 40.2 Totals according to FAST CA 137.8Kg SR 135.2Kg + assorted gaskets, hoses, water tubes, hose clamps, nuts and bolts which all add up and still without power steering pump, and A/C." and then this elsewhere.. [ Engine weight engine weights engine weigh transmission weight transmission weights ] Without transmisison (figure +100-150lbs) A12 87 kg 192 lbs A14 93 kg 205 lbs L18 118 kg 260 lbs CA18ET 118 kg 260 lbs QR25DE 121 kg 267 lbs CA18DET 128 kg 282 lbs SR20DE 139 kg 306 lbs SR20DET 149 kg 328 lbs FJ20ET 166 kg 366 lbs (205 hp) KA24DE 167 kg 368 lbs (est) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachlander Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 If you want something newer how about a 20v 4age with a hair dryer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 They're a bit too high compression to run a blower without some engine altering though aren't they? For effort required you're better to just slap a 16V in there. The number of valves are a lot less important once you start forcing the air in there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTERUS Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Gonna give the 1uz some love here, I used to get 9L/100k on cruise control with open road driving. That's in a 1600kg Soarer, so there's possibly room for improvement there in a Viva Or fucking sweet burnouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 I just dont think a 1UZ would drop in with out some fairly extensive bulkhead mods. I have wondered about the 20V engines? standard without a hairdryer are they a bit top endy- having to revs the tits off them in order to pass something. I bet they must be bloody thrifty though. What about the 2zz? Do they suit RWD applications and are they cheap to buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I think you should import a diesel engine package that'll be lush, from england or something. nobody tweaks diesels here yet (not in the car sense, really) imagine a viva with a lush audi turbo dizzle or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 What about the 2zz? Do they suit RWD applications and are they cheap to buy?Holy crap. Someones actually considering a 2ZZ. Wheres phil?I don't know if they really tick the boxes you are after. While they are a "good" engine, they are known to be a little bit fragile. They are expensive to buy outright and I'm not aware of a RWD box that bolts up. They're also alloy front sump. Do they have engine mounting positions for RWD application? Not sure about that one, it never came RWD in a production car, but they are used in things like Formula Toyota etc, so they might have something you can use. If you're looking that far outside the box what about the Nissan SR16VE - this is Nissan's version of a Honda Vtec. It has a cam chain instead, which is kind of an advantage. A RWD box should bolt up being part of the SR family, though I think there are differences between RWD and FWD SR bellhousings. Not major though. They're cheap enough. You can get a 2litre if you want. They will be cheap to run and reliable. Negatives would be sump is once again at the front, and that dizzy sticking out the back might be tricky - could work around that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 ^mean idea from Cam. Do that. Or just a cheap sweet diesel from here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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