Roman's 4GR V6 Carina discussion thread

[Roman]

This has an F series diff, which is one size smaller than the Hilux ones. 
I think it will be fine.
I've got some spare axles though, and you can buy aftermarket ones that are stronger.

[Spencer]

7.5" they are pretty good size for the weight and power of this thing. You will find out with some slicks and hard launches I guess

[vk327]

slight thread hijack on the diff topic @Roman what f series housing/axles/brakes are you running?  iv got an estima diff i was gonna shorted and make brackets for the st140 corona but looking at  any better options that  are already 4 stud and brakes that  fit behind 14" advans (have an altezza center to go in it to match the 3sge & J160)

[Roman]

The axle tramp this car had on semi slicks or street tyres was insane, the shock loading on the drivetrain must have been intense.
I am 100% convinced that squishy drag tyres do less damage to drivetrain than axle tramp.

The echo as well, on semi slicks it felt like the car was ripping itself to pieces. 
On drag slicks it just felt like a CVT, but the wheels were spinning instead of gearbox guts.

I'm not too worried about breaking stuff. If it breaks it breaks.

One annoying thing.
I'm just looking to get some clarification around tech inspection requirements.
It seems that ethrottle is banned for drag racing tech rules unless it's factory fitted. 
So that might prevent me from passing a tech inspection. 

[Roman]

3 minutes ago, vk327 said:

slight thread hijack on the diff topic @Roman what f series housing/axles/brakes are you running?  iv got an estima diff i was gonna shorted and make brackets for the st140 corona but looking at  any better options that  are already 4 stud and brakes that  fit behind 14" advans (have an altezza center to go in it to match the 3sge & J160)

There is an F series that bolts straight in. Mine came from a left hand drive French MA45 Celica. haha! 
Thanks to @thegreatestben who was wrecking it a long long time ago.
Needless to say they are incredibly uncommon, took a fair few years of looking before I found one. (And back when there were a lot more of these era cars around)

The only problem with this setup is that it's factory drum rear, so has the skinny bearings. I've got an Estima setup too that I might shorten and swap in at some point. So I can get the big bearings on the axles. As I've worn out these ones a few times already. They start leaking after a while.

[vk327]

1 minute ago, Roman said:

There is an F series that bolts straight in. Mine came from a left hand drive French MA45 Celica. haha! 
Thanks to @thegreatestben who was wrecking it a long long time ago.
Needless to say they are incredibly uncommon, took a fair few years of looking before I found one. (And back when there were a lot more of these era cars around)

The only problem with this setup is that it's factory drum rear, so has the skinny bearings. I've got an Estima setup too that I might shorten and swap in at some point. So I can get the big bearings on the axles. As I've worn out these ones a few times already. They start leaking after a while.

looks like the estima might be the go then, been looking at  using an r31 disc or similar  and a mazda 3 caliper with the integrated handbrake since r31 calipers are old and people want silly money for them

[Roman]

Yeah I'm using SW20 calipers at the moment with a Primera disc. 

But I've got an MX5 setup here I was looking to fit at some point. 

Going back to a smaller/lighter non vented disc, and better pad options for MX5s. 

That's one of the most important things for choosing a caliper I think, finding something that actually has good pads.

[BiTurbo228]

1 hour ago, Roman said:

One annoying thing.
I'm just looking to get some clarification around tech inspection requirements.
It seems that ethrottle is banned for drag racing tech rules unless it's factory fitted. 
So that might prevent me from passing a tech inspection. 

I don't know how visible this forum is in the grand scheme of NZ motoring society, but a non-standard e-throttle being picked up by tech inspection is dependant on the tech inspector knowing what the standard throttle was.

Is it non-standard to the car that's not allowed, or non-standard to the engine? As the 4GR has an e-throttle as standard, could an argument be made that you're retaining the standard setup for the engine...

[Roman]

It sounds like the wheels are slowly turning for a rules update around this topic. 
I mean Toyota started having full ethrottle cars 3 years before Playstation 2 came out!
It's hardly a new technology. 

It's funny going to nightspeed because the late model BMWs with advanced traction control stuff just absolutely rocket out of the hole on street tyres compared to anything else. 
But that's not really anything to do with ethrottle, it's more to do with DCT transmissions and ignition cut/fuel cut traction control.
Ethrottle is too slow to react to be useful at the drags.

It's a bit frustrating, but yeah I guess I will just keep pushing to get all the tasks finished to get the car going.
Then just talk to a tech inspector and see how I go. 
It will be a shame to miss participating in OS drags if this is a hurdle.
However I can still get a logbook and enter the car into some other events when it's going.
 

[Truenotch]

Put a carb on it for the tech inspection. Job's good. 

[vk327]

38 minutes ago, Truenotch said:

Put a carb on it for the tech inspection. Job's good. 

this right here... 3D print a cover for all the e throttle and put a decoy  4 barrel  holley on top

[Sungai Sungai]

i suggested a dummy linkage with 4 inches of cable and a length of empty sleeve that runs to nowhere behind the dash. then write TPS on the ethrottle in twink pen

[BiTurbo228]

19 minutes ago, Sungai Sungai said:

i suggested a dummy linkage with 4 inches of cable and a length of empty sleeve that runs to nowhere behind the dash. then write TPS on the ethrottle in twink pen

That's basically what Ford did for the Sierra in Group A racing. They were homologated with Weber engine management and changed to Bosch motronic in '87. In the first race of the WTCC they were disqualified for not matching homologation, but for race 2 they stuck a big 'Ford' sticker over the Bosch logo and passed 

[mjrstar]

10 hours ago, Roman said:

Yeah I'm using SW20 calipers at the moment with a Primera disc. 

But I've got an MX5 setup here I was looking to fit at some point. 

Going back to a smaller/lighter non vented disc, and better pad options for MX5s. 

That's one of the most important things for choosing a caliper I think, finding something that actually has good pads.

There are places like carbotech that will reline backing plates to whatever you supply (if they don't have an off the shelf for you). I run thier xp8 series in my civic which are legit in my opinion..

[Hyperblade]

12 hours ago, Roman said:

Yeah I'm using SW20 calipers at the moment with a Primera disc. 

But I've got an MX5 setup here I was looking to fit at some point. 

Going back to a smaller/lighter non vented disc, and better pad options for MX5s. 

That's one of the most important things for choosing a caliper I think, finding something that actually has good pads.

If using anywhere near the track then yep it's a big deal, if you make sure you have a good range available you will save yourself a lot of money in the long run.

More choice means more competition so harder for the manufacturers to price gouge you.

So calipers from MX5, GT86 etc are good choices as they are often tracked as standard.

1 hour ago, mjrstar said:

There are places like carbotech that will reline backing plates to whatever you supply (if they don't have an off the shelf for you). I run thier xp8 series in my civic which are legit in my opinion..

Generally though you are still limited to a smaller selection of compounds, my personal experience of bonded mintex was not a good one. But it's going to also depend on the use case, as proper track racing is quite different to say hill climb or street.

Another option is picking a caliper that lets you water jet cut a pad down from another common pad size, this is what I did with my rear AE86 disk setup, I just had wilwood polymatrix pads cut down to suit, $25 to cut down per pad, and once they have template it's easy as.

If your looking for long lasting brakes, bigger and thicker pads are what you want to go for, it helps them last a lot longer from the heat and just helps all the components around them.

 

[thegreatestben]

17 hours ago, Roman said:

There is an F series that bolts straight in. Mine came from a left hand drive French MA45 Celica. haha! 
Thanks to @thegreatestben who was wrecking it a long long time ago.
Needless to say they are incredibly uncommon, took a fair few years of looking before I found one. (And back when there were a lot more of these era cars around)

The only problem with this setup is that it's factory drum rear, so has the skinny bearings. I've got an Estima setup too that I might shorten and swap in at some point. So I can get the big bearings on the axles. As I've worn out these ones a few times already. They start leaking after a while.

I think it was Swiss! I think I still have pics of that on my hdd at home. That car contributed to a few OS builds

I'm glad you're still getting use out of the parts, and the wheels. I will need to come for a hoon in the Carina when it's running.

[xsspeed]

Romandayf I was pondering direct injection as I cant get 1urfse/2urfse's out of my head, what is the main reason you abandon the DI? Cos its a bitch or? 

Some very light reading suggests benefits mixture (efficiency and power) and Im sure something talked about charge cooling too, or is there really a need to run both DI and port injection that Im missing and so becomes a big faff?

Or is the main reason for looking at these toyota DI n/a engines because they typically have the higher compression as a starting point

[shrike]

Don't DI engines tend to have carbon build up issues on the valves? 

Also I'm not sure of an aftermarket ecu that runs direct injection but I could be wrong

They also run alot higher fuel pressure (mechanical fuel pump at the rail?)

From what I've seen DI and Port gives best of both worlds if you can run it properly 

Guess it's another failure point however 

[Hyperblade]

11 minutes ago, shrike said:

Also I'm not sure of an aftermarket ecu that runs direct injection but I could be wrong

Link have had one for a while

G4+ Force GDI https://dealers.linkecu.com/force-gdi 4 Cylinder only though, ($3000+)

And have their new G5 Voodoo Pro https://dealers.linkecu.com/G5-Voodoo-Pro ($5000+)

Not a cheap exercise!

 

[shrike]

8 minutes ago, Hyperblade said:

Link have had one for a while

G4+ Force GDI https://dealers.linkecu.com/force-gdi 4 Cylinder only though, ($3000+)

And have their new G5 Voodoo Pro https://dealers.linkecu.com/G5-Voodoo-Pro ($5000+)

Not a cheap exercise!

 

I stand corrected good to know there is an option but gosh your right it's not a cheap exercise