chris r

chrisr hz tonner discussion

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One Ton front ends are unique to these models only.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression the HZ one tonner had the HZ RTS front suspension?

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Re the OP; I absolutely love your 1 tonner! Unquestionably the best Aussie workhorse ever made and the icing on the cake has to be it's part of your family history.

 

I've shared a love-hate relationship with Red Holden 6's for a number of decades and from my own experience would suggest the following.

 

Grab the pointless distributor/coil/lead combination of a blue/black six, it's a bolt on solution that simply works.

 

I love your classic twin carb setup but I'm picking it's from a HD?186 X2? Bottom line is it will perform worse than the standard carb. I'd go for an aftermarket manifold (plenty around 2nd hand) with a falcon 32/36 DCD Weber. It's a very common conversion that delivers improved power and economy. Steer clear of Holly's, I've run both 2 and 4 barrel setups and they've always been unreliable, gas guzzling units!  

 

A set of extractors will make a huge difference, just make sure it's a 6 into 2 into one with 123 and 456 being in the 1st group.

 

What can I say, great project.

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Seriously? Worse than the standard carb??

Its basically 2 of the same carb...

Set up right the twin down draft stromberg will do well.

Just be sure they're the right carbs for it (not just any old 2 single barrel strombergs but a pair) and be sure the linkages are set up correctly.

myself i prefer the old triple cd strombergs. But work with what ya got i say.

As for the rest yep grab a blue motor electronic dizzy. But ditch the plastic dizzy gear and throw an oil pump drive gear on it instead.

Fit alloy timing gears. Be sure to do all the welsch plugs (inc the ones in the cylinder head)

And you should be right.

As for exhaust extractors are cool.

I myself like the old x2 or the gtr xu1 cast exhaust manifolds. They give a nice low down torque feel on a mild 6.

nice looking car. Great starting point.

oh also throw a new harmonic balancer on it. And see about an xu1 retainer plate plate for it. Pretty sure available from rare spares.

or just bolt another pulley to the harmonic. Will save ya radiator etc if the harmonic ever lets go.

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I got a injected 202 dizzy a while ago but never got around to fitting it. They are x2 cards but I won't put them on. I am not sure if it has rts or not as there is no badging on it at all. Extractors are on the list too

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The easiest way to tell an RTS and non-RTS front suspension/chassis apart is by looking at the upper shock absorber mount on the chassis. The RTS models have the shock mount hole exactly in the middle of the two wheel alignment bolts. The non- RTS chassis will have the shock mount hole much closer to the wheel alignment bolt closest to the rear of the vehicle. Chris I think your Tonner is a non-RTS but will pop my head under there and take a look when I'm pulling off the grille for re-chroming. Top photo shows RTS. Bottom photo is the earlier non-RTS.

 

RTS:

 

HZ+RTS.JPG

 

 

Non- RTS:

 

HJ+Non-RTS.JPG

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Re the OP; I absolutely love your 1 tonner! Unquestionably the best Aussie workhorse ever made and the icing on the cake has to be it's part of your family history.

I've shared a love-hate relationship with Red Holden 6's for a number of decades and from my own experience would suggest the following.

Grab the pointless distributor/coil/lead combination of a blue/black six, it's a bolt on solution that simply works.

I love your classic twin carb setup but I'm picking it's from a HD?186 X2? Bottom line is it will perform worse than the standard carb. I'd go for an aftermarket manifold (plenty around 2nd hand) with a falcon 32/36 DCD Weber. It's a very common conversion that delivers improved power and economy. Steer clear of Holly's, I've run both 2 and 4 barrel setups and they've always been unreliable, gas guzzling units!

A set of extractors will make a huge difference, just make sure it's a 6 into 2 into one with 123 and 456 being in the 1st group.

What can I say, great project.

I'll need to talk brakes with you too. They are super sticky/grabby. I suspect the calipers and prop valve need a re fresh. (pads shoes and cylinders have been done.

I'd love to have a multi carb angry 6 but at the end of the day it's a use and I'll use it for towing/use stuff so I want some degree of livibility. Will keep the stock carb and manifold. Will keep a eye out for a set of extractors

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The easiest way to tell an RTS and non-RTS front suspension/chassis apart is by looking at the upper shock absorber mount on the chassis. The RTS models have the shock mount hole exactly in the middle of the two wheel alignment bolts. The non- RTS chassis will have the shock mount hole much closer to the wheel alignment bolt closest to the rear of the vehicle. Chris I think your Tonner is a non-RTS but will pop my head under there and take a look when I'm pulling off the grille for re-chroming. Top photo shows RTS. Bottom photo is the earlier non-RTS.

 

RTS:

 

HZ+RTS.JPG

 

 

Non- RTS:

 

HJ+Non-RTS.JPG

So is it the arm that changes position or the shock? (Relative to the bottom arm)

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Seriously? Worse than the standard carb??

Its basically 2 of the same carb...

 

 

Sorry, I was probably not being clear enough in my post. I was presuming the Twin Carb setup was off a 186 X2 (they ran the earlier Strombergs from the 161 and 149) whereas the standard HZ runs the later Bendix/Stromberg BX?

 

The difficulty with the 9 port head is the 3 siamesed inlet ports, i.e. 2 doesn't divide into 3 very well. Holden  went back to a single carb setup with the 186S for that very reason. When they returned to using multiple carburettors they went straight to 3x sidedraught cds Strombergs.

 

That aside the X2 twin carb setup is a seriously good looking piece of retro history to hang off the side of a Red Holden 6!

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Very similar theory to what ive heard in the past.

But that still has 2 barrels. So same as twin single barrel carbs.

Same as a weber or 350 holley etc etc.

Had multiple mild/hot 6s over the years.

And if setup correctly it will work fine.

Biggest issue with what i hear of "steer clear of ....... setup cos they never work..."

Is that the person telling you to stay away from it has no idea of what theyre doing with it.

Ultimately it will come down to what you're wanting to achieve and what your knowledge is and what your access to is.

If all you can get are holley 4 barrels then i suggest you start researching them

If all you can get are falcon webers then start researching those

Etc etc.

If you learn all about your chosen setup you shouldn't have to many dramas.

It will also come down to what the legalities are to if you want a daily driver etc.

Over hear carby swaps after '73 are a no no. So you either take the risk or do things sneaky.

Ie twin down drafts definitely dont look standard where as you can hide a single down draft carby under an air cleaner and fool some boys in blue.

Out of all the setups ive done ive liked my triple cds best. They are easy to tune stay in tune and deliver great performance and economy compared to the different setups ive had.

If $$$ wasn't an issue id go for efi.

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Very similar theory to what ive heard in the past.

But that still has 2 barrels. So same as twin single barrel carbs.

Same as a weber or 350 holley etc etc.

 

The difference with a dual choke carb is the single point of injection.

 

I ran a X2 twin carb setup for a while (see my project thread) until moving on to a single DCD Weber, the difference was like night and day. The engine ran smoother, produced better power and drank a lot less gas.

I've recently bought a triple set of 40mm DCOE's to have a play with, it's going to take a bit of work to set them up but will be interesting to see how they perform. I've had experience some years ago with triple DCOE's on a 280Z Nissan motor, they worked well but were thirsty to say the least! 

 

Fitting the 12 port head and injection off a VK Commodore is a very cheap EFI solution, they just look so bloody ugly! 

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Everyone has different results and different experiences. Which is what makes our hobby/life more interesting.

As for injection id not bother with the vk crap.

Id rather a multi throttle body setup. Ie: triples.

The vk setup can be a major pain to fit under many bonnets.

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So is it the arm that changes position or the shock? (Relative to the bottom arm)

 

Had a look and it is indeed the upper arm that changes position in relation to the bottom arm. They moved it rearward by about an inch.

The RTS front ends (chassis) also have much meatier bottom arm mounts.

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