Seedy Al Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hey guys, So I have a Toyota Caldina ST215, Beams 3sge powered Caldina GT in the workshop. It appears to be running Lean, as he has said he went up to Ohakuni in it, and the exhaust was red hot, and is gaining great fuel mileage at the same time If you reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery, this makes it better for a short while, and then will eventually lose power. If I was a guessing man, which at this point I am, because I have a zillion other things to deal with besides this customer, I would say that the VVT-i gear on the end of the cam is fucked. Used the Diagnostic machine to activate it while sitting at idle, and noticed no change to revs or anything, which I would have thought you would have. Plus also activated it and unplugged it after, to see if that made a change to running, but no. Have tested the solenoid and that is working on a bench test, and oil is clean through out. Would someone have any thoughts as to whether I am running down the right track? Head gasket was replaced by us a while ago, just to add something to the story. No vacuum leaks present either. So yeah, I dunno, dont want to waste hours doing a job replacing the gear if Im way off course lol Thanks Smallen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 would type of fuel be an issue? internet consensus seems to be 98 on these which we do on ours and no drama psuedo edit, oh wait lean or rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighLUX Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Running rich or lean? I are confused as to what one as the title and description are different /Why complain if hes getting super good milage? No other codes come up when you plugged in the code reader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatestben Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Oxy sensor on the fritz perhaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedy Al Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Sorry, edited....! Lean boys Oh and can rule out oxy sensor, he fit a new one 2 weeks ago, from toyota, as it kept bringing up oxy sensor heater fault, and had fucked around wasting money buying second hand ones. But yeah, no codes, which sucks, as most of these I have seen with a vvt fault usually sprouts a code somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I hate faults that wont bring up codes. Does your scanning tool have data logging functions? if so maybe could go for a hoon with it recodring a few parameters and seeing whats going on real time? I <3'd volvo tech tool for that . made life so much easier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighLUX Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Flow test injectors? MAP/MAF sensor getting a false reading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'm with ben. Something wrong with oxy sensor wiring? As you said when you "reset" the ecu it runs fine for a bit. Then leans off. Some factory cars run closed loop, so if there is a wiring fault or the new oxy sensor is cocked it would think its running rich and lean out to compensate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemi Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Thats an idea. unplug the sensor and see if anything changes? As per what goat said** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFI_LC Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I am with others. The 3s-ge has a pretty good learning ecu in the lower rev range, cruising = lower revs. The only change done was an oxy sensor which from description several had the same error prior. Could it be wiring? when warmed up it leans out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downtrail Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Lean wont cause exhaust to glow but retarded timing will as the energy is wasted out the exhaust insted of being used in the combustion chamber. Sounds like your on the right track with the vvti. Belt could have jumped a tooth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTorque Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Does this have just one O2 sensor or is there a second one further down? Any chance that the oil gallery to the vvt solenoid has been blocked up by sealant when the head gasket was done? I don't now about the old 3S-GE, but the newer engines, such as 1NZ, if you activate the vvt all the way they way with the scan tool they will stall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I reckon MAF related issue is first suspect. Does it have an aftermarket air intake? pod filter etc? Try some MAF cleaner spray if you havent. VVTI not working wouldnt make it run lean, because if it wasnt working and less air was coming in then the MAF would give a lower reading and still be correct. I would imagine it would cause engine knocking rather than running lean. Any air leak after the MAF will make it run like a sack of crap, and second major suspect is aftermarket air intake. If there's an OBD2 port on the car I can tell you how to make a generic OBD2 reader work with it... This will give you heaps more info about what the engine thinks is going on. As well as some error codes which dont show up as the flashable error codes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedy Al Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 I have atop brand scan tool here Seems to be pumping out lots of advance, which might be common but talking around the high 50's, which would make me think if its the vvti which is not working and is retarded as someone pointed out, then after an ecu reset it would start at its basic timing and then start trying to pump in more advance as time goes on. making it worse and worse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedy Al Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 and yes Thats what I would expect it to do as well there Alltorque, but it does not seem to make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Oxy sensor on the fritz perhaps When these fail generally fuel consumption goes up /rich. Any chance the new headgasket is missing an oil passage which is giving the lack of vvt-ness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedy Al Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 I doubt it, but anything is possible lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downtrail Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I have atop brand scan tool here Seems to be pumping out lots of advance, which might be common but talking around the high 50's, which would make me think if its the vvti which is not working and is retarded as someone pointed out, then after an ecu reset it would start at its basic timing and then start trying to pump in more advance as time goes on. making it worse and worse Did you confirm commanded timing matches actual with a light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I have atop brand scan tool here Seems to be pumping out lots of advance, which might be common but talking around the high 50's, which would make me think if its the vvti which is not working and is retarded as someone pointed out, then after an ecu reset it would start at its basic timing and then start trying to pump in more advance as time goes on. making it worse and worse Just a thought, I had these exact symptoms when I had an incorrect knock sensor fitted, it would keep thinking there was no knock so smash in heaps of advance. It's possible that the car has a faulty knock sensor, you wont necessarily get any error codes from it. When I was driving with a blown knock sensor it would take ages to show a fault. As in, 10s of hours of driving. Here's a copy paste about it, keep in mind this is exactly same engine as what's in the Caldina: I've had a mix of problems for a while, where the engine runs good under full load, but is a total dog at cruising or idle. I've been chasing around just about everything trying to figure this out. Well, it turns out that I've had the wrong knock sensor, which has been causing the chaos! When knock happens, it makes a certain frequency vibration in the engine block. The frequency differs depending on the bore and stroke, similar to how a trumpet makes a different sound to a big tuba or something. So the problem that I had, was that I had a knock sensor from a smaller engine. It was listening out for knock on a different frequency, and not hearing it when it happened. The ECU thought everything was dandy, so was smashing in shitloads of ignition advance because it thought I was running some wizard magic fuel that appreciates 50 degrees advance in all scenarios hahaha. Today though, I managed to find a knock sensor from a gen 3 3SGE at Zebra. Got home and swapped this over, reset the ECU and disabled all changes from the fuel computer. Took it for a run, and... sweet jesus! Idle problems and low load problems instantly solved. Idle has gone back down to 10 or so degrees advance, and the idle is stable at 950-1000rpm when previously it was running 12-1300. At low load cruising it's now doing 30-35ish degrees advance instead of high 40s. It's in a prick of a place to get to though, haha. But I guess you could bench test the knock sensor or something. Regarding the VVTI it's normal that under idle / low load it's not really advancing the cam anyway. So I wouldnt expect problems from VVTI alone causing the motor to get super hot / lean under cruising conditions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 partially blocked fuel filter? fuel pressure regulator faulty? I would look at things which would impede the injectors from doing their thing. I guess ECU included so possible faulty AFM/map sensor etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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