Brock-Lee Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is sweet as hell! Within the supertourer rules were they able to screw with susp. mounting points or anything? just curios as to what you are going to end up with the rear setup. Is there any info you can follow from that era of racing or is it all still hush hush and you are just going to have to blaze your own trail with things/guesstimates from old pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isnowi Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This is sweet as hell!Within the supertourer rules were they able to screw with susp. mounting points or anything? just curios as to what you are going to end up with the rear setup. Is there any info you can follow from that era of racing or is it all still hush hush and you are just going to have to blaze your own trail with things/guesstimates from old pictures i think that the shell had to be stock, and that the same type of suspension had to be fitted ie, mac strut for mac strut etc. some of the manufactrurs made fancy subframes that moved engines down and back, and also moved driving positions for better balnace. Also engine was pretty much open to an engine from another model as long as it was below 2litres, and N/A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yeah suspension was full custom front and rear. The Vectras (Cavaliers) ran a multilink independent suspension in the rear which would be far too expensive/difficult for me to replicate. I think the torsion beam will work ok to begin with. I think the only limitations were that the suspension fixing points needed to be in the original positions to stop them from putting in crazy F1 style double control arms etc. For my stuff I'm just following simple tuning fundamentals rather than trying to copy the original cars because they had a slightly bigger budget than me. Check out the original "BTCC thread" for heaps of pics and links of the super tourers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Keen to drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hey Brad, what were details for the guy who provided you with cage bars? How much $ got you what exactly? Edit: also having bad thoughts about starting a st190 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Dave McCahon from Racecraft Engineering in Chch. racecraft@paradise.net.nz 0274 341 541 Was a basic 6 point kit but didn't include side intrusion bars or any other extras and came to around $550 shipped and with plates ready to be welded in. Very good value imo and appears to be a good fit. I've heard of a lot of guys using them and they've done over 2500 cages in 20 odd years. You can get all the extras for $50-100 or so, depending on what you want but I decided that we would just get some tube and make them as we go. Also some pics from the track for thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 How much room have you got up in the guards for more supertourer slam? I am keen to watch the development of this and see which changes drop times the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaMpylobacter Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 shit that is awesome. soooo jacked though! lewl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 So that was supply of tube, and pre bent? All you need to arrange is positioning, welding, adding your extras and homologation? Who will you get to do your welding etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I would say it requires some mild tubbing to go super tourer low, all the later BTCC cars had tubbed out guards Some DIY adjustabe blade type swaybars would be way up on the list once the basic suspension is sorted, theres cheap ways to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am keen to watch the development of this and see which changes drop times the most. I dare say (if possible) the best gain in a machine of this spec would be to optimise the gearing through a shorter final drive or closer gearset. Better drop in lap times compared to trying to eek out 30-40 more HP. Well that and top quality brake pads/ fluid would be also way up there on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 So that was supply of tube, and pre bent? All you need to arrange is positioning, welding, adding your extras and homologation?Who will you get to do your welding etc? Yeah all pre-bent I'll get some photos (edit: photos added). I've gone through all the homologation stuff and it seems surprisingly easy to do compared to what people say. I'm still intending on putting up a road-race car thread with all these little details including costs etc to try and encourage more people into motorsport and hopefully prove that it doesn't have to be expensive. In the end, it is always going to be a costly hobby though. Welding will be done by a ticketed welder I know who is pretty much the man. He's done a few cages but he just said for me to do all the legality side and tell him exactly what I want and he will do it. How much room have you got up in the guards for more supertourer slam? I am keen to watch the development of this and see which changes drop times the most. It can still go down quite a bit. I was limited more on trying to keep it captive etc rather than clearance to the inner guards, but yeah. To get proper ST slam it will need a bit of cutting as Spence says. This picture shows a new "tubbed" section in front of the strut, which is all that needs doing once the strut is tied into the cage. I am keen to watch the development of this and see which changes drop times the most.I dare say (if possible) the best gain in a machine of this spec would be to optimise the gearing through a shorter final drive or closer gearset. Better drop in lap times compared to trying to eek out 30-40 more HP. Well that and top quality brake pads/ fluid would be also way up there on my list. It was interesting getting out on the track because gear ratios are something I've been worried about. The gearbox is a "close ratio" box called an F20, but with the huge rolling diameter of the 18's I was worried final drive would be too long. Overall I'm pretty happy, it was at about 7krpm in 4th at the end of the long straight (around 170km/h). It was dropping 2krpm on each shift (7krpm - 5krpm), which is pretty much the meat of the power band, so that's fine. I think it will be nearly perfect once I open the engine up a little, bringing the rev limit to 8krpm and 5th gear should have it topping out in early 200's. I've heard the biggest single gain on a FWD track car comes with a decent LSD, so that is probably the first thing I'll be aiming for once I get the cage in and the suspension somewhere near where I want it. They are only around $1500 new and I may have a source for a second hand one that I will follow up when funds allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I've heard the biggest single gain on a FWD track car comes with a decent LSD, so that is probably the first thing I'll be aiming for once I get the cage in and the suspension somewhere near where I want it. They are only around $1500 new and I may have a source for a second hand one that I will follow up when funds allow. i can agree with this i put a viscous lsd in my supercharged ae92 trueno racecar project and it made a huge difference . id be interested in how that cage kit works ive been looking at one and ive been struggling with having to fork out so much to get a cage built Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowlancer Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 How much harder (if at all) is this to modify compared to a Japanese sedan you reckon? Seems like a primera would be a sweet bet for a cheap, quick-ish FWD trackcar. Not that that's important reall, sweet that you've chosen this particular vehicle. I've always had a mild hidden boner for the same shape Galant fuel has (though would go N/A for costs), would be pretty easy to make one go okay given the history of the VR4 and parts available. Pop an AMG engine in with what you've done to this suspension and shit-wise, would be pretty fun I reckon Probably the same for the ST190s? If I wasn't studying next year, I'd be so ken to fail on a new project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 There is an sr20ve'd p10 with lsd and a bunch of other stz for 2.8k over on the primera forum. Buy it Do it. Go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 How much harder (if at all) is this to modify compared to a Japanese sedan you reckon? Seems like a primera would be a sweet bet for a cheap, quick-ish FWD trackcar. Not that that's important reall, sweet that you've chosen this particular vehicle. I've always had a mild hidden boner for the same shape Galant fuel has (though would go N/A for costs), would be pretty easy to make one go okay given the history of the VR4 and parts available. Pop an AMG engine in with what you've done to this suspension and shit-wise, would be pretty fun I reckon Probably the same for the ST190s? If I wasn't studying next year, I'd be so ken to fail on a new project. I've spent about 2 years trying to convince nilly to build a galant of that shape into a race car, but aside from all the other issues he seems to think the suspension is a bit too crap to bother with and perhaps the newer shape would be better. Obviously there are better bases than a Vectra or Galant of the era, but it is what you're into. I got into these things when I was hunting for engines for the Shove and have been hooked ever since. It's one of those things, the more you learn, the more you like it/them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzurro Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 mean my mum had a GT hatch one from new exactly like this: i remember it as being pretty trick at the time, and it handled better than the old boys v8 calais of the same vintage - she eventually traded it in for the newer shape but she reckoned it was nowhere near as good as her old one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cute wee gem Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Your braking issues remind me of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker.cam Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 There is an sr20ve'd p10 with lsd and a bunch of other stz for 2.8k over on the primera forum. Buy it Do it. Go. I agree with this man. First track day i went to in my Silvia was the new short track at Taupo. There was a dude there with a nana as looking p10 with a sr20ve and golly it was quick. Sweet jacking the inside rear wheel about a foot in the air on the first turn. It had mediocre tyres and I think just low springs and he was lapping faster than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizer Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Semi on topic/not really, these would be a close relation to the Daewoo Cielo aye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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