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re-registering a vehicle

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Right, so I took the Mini in for a re-rego check on Wednesday at VTNZ. The car was ready for pickup today, Friday. 

Cost was $229 and the inspection was a strict WOF inspection. My car has failed on a few things, but i have 20 working days for a recheck. The recheck MUST be booked in first. If you miss that deadline, you must pay again and have a full inspection again. Any brake work needs to be signed off on the included declaration, with receipts, but they are happy for me to do the work and fill it out myself.

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On 27/07/2018 at 11:35, kws said:

Ok, so have finally been able to get to the JP to sign the declaration. She was happy with what I had on it, so that should be the paperwork side done. Now to actually get the car to VTNZ.

I will be taking with me,

The signed Statutory Declaration
Printed email from NZTA regarding reusing my black plates
The generic Sale & Purchase agreement the seller signed when i purchased the car
A Printout of the Trademe listing
A Printout of Carjam showing it as NOT stolen (and also showing Rego and chassis numbers)

Hopefully that should suffice.

I have attached a template made from the Stat Declaration that I used. I cant be certain this will be suitable for everyone, but should give an idea of what could be on it. The JP was happy, but yet to see if VTNZ will be happy with it. Use at own risk.

Also note that for some reason when opened in Chrome all the spaces in the text are missing. Seems to work fine when downloaded on my Mac. It is an editable PDF.

https://www.tasteslikepetrol.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Statutory-declaration-final-1.pdf

I can also now confirm that this information was sufficient for VTNZ. They would prefer you used one of their special Stat Dec forms, but saw no reason they couldn't accept the generic one signed by a JP (yes, that's how they said it, "couldn't see why not" :?). They didn't specifically need anything but the Stat Dec and printout from NZTA about the black plates.

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this just came up on the Classic Cars and Wrecks of New Zealand Facebook Group

So I can not confirm the validnessness of the information or if it is current or when the answerer used this method etc

The question was :

Quote

Hey everybody, this is the 1960 Humber 80 we are bringing back from rust death. I need to register etc and want to keep the plates. Apparently I need to show that these are this cars old plates ( they are). Anybody know the car?

1st best answer was:

Quote

Dead Black Plates renewal process.

Do Not Get your car vinned or attempt to re-license.

Follow this process first:

To re-use your old Black Plates you need to ring this number:
0800366988
Email: reuseofplates@nzta.govt.nz with the following information:

They want photos of the plates
Photo of body tag
Proof the plates are from the vehicle like a photo of wof sticker
or receipts for work done to the car with plates listed.
And or ownership papers or bill of sale like a declaration etc.
Your contact details

10 day process time or sooner.

IMPORTANT: Do not start the vin process or the plates will be disallowed for ever ie unusable forever.

Wait for LTSA to send you the ok with a number you are to give to the VIN agent like VTNZ or VINZ.

I hope this helps many. Share this info around

on this picture if you want the source (or to add your thoughts)

48366330_10218633745783620_7821335063211

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10218633745743619&set=gm.2019630678123767&type=3&eid=ARByjbpN779Z4hoeqB_KaaoICfWeIdbUn2CZ0hpxRx0M5ajmsuDuEqJhQPRCU5Q7RzV2DU3gYGnFdCoj

sorry if it's been covered before I had a quick scan of the OP

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I have bought a car (NZ First Registration Oct 1986) and it was registered new in New Zealand in 1986,  I was it's second owner back in 1996 and promptly bought it back from the (now) former owner when I found it again (sentimental reasons). I received a purchase receipt from the previous owner and am trying to get them to write that I bought the vehicle off of them. Unfortunately the rego is dead, Carjam documents state that the vehicle was permanently taken off the road (Feb 2005) so am looking to get it re registered using the old rego numbers (sadly the seller didn't have the plates, strangely they were white plates even though first rego in NZ was Oct 1986 ). Have called around and have been told the plates are still in the system and are available, either to get them remade or as a personalized plate. Would much prefer to have the original plates remade and reissued to the vehicle. 
I wish to reinstate the plates as these plates the vehicle was issued with from new and wore until it was de reg (and as above for sentimental reasons).
I have been told that there is no rush to secure these plates but I do wish to secure ownership of the plates promptly while I am restoring the vehicle and to ensure the (original) plate number/letter combo remain with the vehicle. I am worried that someone else will take the plate number as a personalized plate or be re issued to someone else, thus negating 'somewhat' the value (to me) of restoring the car.
Is this possible to do whilst I am restoring the vehicle?. 
The car is not a Japanese import but was built in Germany (as carjam states). I have an old purchase agreement from a car dealer with vehicle details, rego window ticket (3 of, last one states 2005 the year the rego was cancelled), build sheet with the vin number (on the boot lid), carjam report with the vin number and the personlized plate people who told me what the vin number is and it is stamped on the firewall.
I have been told the vehicle cannot be registered to me as the registration has been cancelled, I do want some way of noting I am its owner and seems to me if it has no plates it can't be owned.
Can I purchase the plates or rights to, keep them on hold until I finish the restoration and take them with me when I take the car in to get re registered? (providing of course I can secure them).
Is there anything else I need to do to secure the plates?.
 
Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

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I think you will find that unless you buy them as personalised plates there is not much you can do to secure them. Also, if the car has been issued white plates at any time in its life you will never be able to register it with the older black plates.

If you are that concerned the best bet is to buy them as personalised plates and either have them remade as black plates of do it yourself.

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There is no way to "transfer" the ownership to you when it is de-registered. To re-register it you will need a paper trail of how it came to be in your possession, but other than that in the eyes of NZTA it is currently a bundle of parts, not a car.

I have no comment on the plate thing, but might be worth calling the plates people or maybe LicenSys to see what they say about it.

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4 hours ago, kiwi808 said:

I think you will find that unless you buy them as personalised plates there is not much you can do to secure them. Also, if the car has been issued white plates at any time in its life you will never be able to register it with the older black plates.

If you are that concerned the best bet is to buy them as personalised plates and either have them remade as black plates of do it yourself.

Sorry I realize I was less than clear, the car never had black plates, only white ones.

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If you want the original number you will have to buy the original number as a personalised plate and will have to re register car and then put your personal plate on it

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1 hour ago, 00quattro00 said:

If you want the original number you will have to buy the original number as a personalised plate and will have to re register car and then put your personal plate on it

I have been told the original number is available either as a standard plate or as a personalized plate, I would prefer the standard plate route if I can.

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Once those plates have been turned in or the car wearing those plates has been de-registered, you cannot 're-issue' white plates. Only way you could do it is get that letter/number combination made up as a personalised plate, and try track down the original plates and swap them on. As you may expect, this is costly and near impossible if those white plates have been handed back in after it was de-registered.

Only way you can reuse plates is if they are BLACK plates and were the plates originally issued with the car, and were the plates on the car right up until it was deregistered.

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If you want black plates you can find a set that have gone out of the system and buy that number as a personal plate and then just fit the black ones

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From the horses mouth.

Hi 

 

You would need to personalise the plates by calling Kiwiplates on 0800 650 111. We only reinstate a vehicle’s registration if the registration has been cancelled in error by us or one of our agents.

 

Kind regards

 

Tania

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Hey.

Here is a tricky one. 

I have been looking at a car on Trademe. And I can clearly tell the number plate and tags have been swapped at some stage. The plates come back as the wrong model and also the wrong body type, it's a early model wagon but the plates and tags on it are for a later model sedan.

I have been talking to the seller and they had no idea that the plates had been swapped, they brought the car 7 years ago from an old guy who had a little collection of said old cars, so I'm thinking that the old wagon plates had expired so he did a dodgy and swapped the plates for some live sedan plates. 

Rightly so, now that the seller knows the plates aren't legit, they don't want to sell the car for fear of getting in trouble. Because the wagons are rare I want to see if I can help them get it legal so they can sell it, so hopefully there will be another wagon on the road.

So... what are their options? There are no other tags on it, except for this sedan one, which is clearly wrong. I can't even ID the year, other than it was made some time between 1972 and 1978. It has been driving around and getting WOFs for the last 7 years with the wrong plates and tags, and nobody has noticed. Can they do a Statutory Declaration and say that they have owned it for 7 years and were unaware that the plates had been switched by the previous owner? Would they then need to re-register the car?

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rather than open the can of worms as tortron said, would it be potentially better for the seller to see if they can get the registered description/plates changed to a wagon?  Clearly the body is a wagon, so that could potentially be a way to half fix the issue?

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It would seem that he is screwed. Engine no?

Without some firm proof as to the original identity, he will never be able to prove its not stolen. Buyer beware, due diligence, caveat emptor etc.

 

 

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True but he is asking about re-registering.

Good luck trying to convince Land Transport or an inspector that putting plates and tags on a vehicle was not done for a dishonest purpose. The fact is, you cannot swap the identity of one vehicle to another regardless of the reason.

To be re-registered, the burden of proof is on the person proving (physically with engine/chassis/ID numbers) that it is not stolen. Not that it might be or might not be because it is impossible to determine.

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3 hours ago, oldrx7 said:

rather than open the can of worms as tortron said, would it be potentially better for the seller to see if they can get the registered description/plates changed to a wagon?  Clearly the body is a wagon, so that could potentially be a way to half fix the issue?

The problem is worse than that, it's a pre-78 Hillman Avenger Wagon, and the plates and tags are for a 1979 Chrysler Avenger GLS sedan. So it's the wrong year, wrong make, wrong model and wrong body style. 

41 minutes ago, Flauski said:

It would seem that he is screwed. Engine no?

Yes car conversion happens, yes people get WOFs for years but that is the inspectors negligence to do their job correctly. I have seen a vehicle with plates and tags done, with just a piece of insulation tape stuck over the original chassis number (which was stolen.) This vehicle still got warrants because no one bothered to look for the physical chassis number. Its just lazy practice to copy the chassis no. onto the WOF check sheet from the computer when the plate no. is searched rather than looking at the actual vehicle.  

Without some firm proof as to the original identity, he will never be able to prove its not stolen. Buyer beware, due diligence, caveat emptor etc.

 

 

Assuming it still has the original engine, that might be the only way of identifying the car, but can you search for old engine numbers? keep in mine that the original rego has probably been dead for at least 7 years so it will be well and truly out of the system by now.

With the Avengers, there is no other identifiable markings on the car. The only place where the chassis number is noted is on this little plate which is only held on by two rivets, so all you would need to do is drill out the rivets and then swap the plates over and then the car is totally untraceable. BTW, the BP7H41 is what tells you what type of car it is, that decodes to a 1979 1600 manual GLS sedan. If it was a 79 wagon it would be BP7M45

1004166679.jpg

Chances are that you probably could have kept on getting WOF and regos without anyone noticing, because unless you knew the difference between a Hillman and a Chrysler, or unless you looked it up on carjam as saw that it was registered as a sedan, or you decoded the chassis number, then you would never know that the plates have been swapped. It was before they had the chassis number stamped on the body, so back then it was simple to change the plates and nobody would ever spot it, if he had have swapped the plates with another hillman wagon, then you couldn't tell, it's only because they swapped it with a Chrysler sedan that I spotted it

 

23 minutes ago, igor said:

Equally no-one will be able to prove that it is stolen.

You couldn't prove it's stolen, but you probably couldn't prove you own it either, because when the seller signed over the ownership, they weren't taking ownership of this wagon, they were technically taking ownership of some other random sedan.

I probably don't think the plates were swapped due to theft, talking to the seller, the guy they brought it off was an old guy who had a bunch of Avengers, so he probably just did it because the plates had expired on the wagon.

15 minutes ago, Flauski said:

True but he is asking about re-registering.

Good luck trying to convince Land Transport or an inspector that putting plates and tags on a vehicle was not done for a dishonest purpose.

To be re-registered, the burden of proof is on the person proving (physically with engine/chassis/ID numbers) that it is not stolen. Not that it might be or might not be because it is impossible to determine.

Exactly, so because there is no way to actually tell what the original chassis number was then I can't see a way that you could ever prove what the car is, or if it has been stolen, or if the original seller even owned it in the first place. My only thought is that because they were swapped so long again that maybe they reached some type of statute of limitation. But yeah, it's going to be difficult because you wouldn't even know what year to reregister it as.

 So yeah, I don't know if there is something you can do when a car is in this situation, or if it is destined to become a parts car, which would be a shame.

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Old rego system is full of errors, just go to the post office or NZTA and have the rego changed from sedan to wagon. Then only the most barry of wof inspectors would ever pick up on it. The car is older than most wof inspectors.

 

There are heaps of Starlet hatchbacks registered as sedans and even vans.

 

 

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