Stu Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yep sounds like arming voltage to me - post up your table for a look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Dont have it handy but it was: 0000rpm- 0.3v 1000rpm- 4v 2000rpm- 6.3v 3000rpm- 6.3v 4000rpm- 6.3v 5000rpm- 6.3v 6000rpm- 6.3v 7000rpm - 6.3v So just going to lower those first two values as it's fine from there onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Here's mine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Oh cool thanks!Yeah it looks like the basemap values for mine would proably be fine if not for that tooth issue. But it's interesting to learn these things, and should be an easy fix so that's a win really! Do you have your filtering set higher than 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Ive just increased mine to level 2. I had a slight miss/felt really soft above 6000rpm that I had trouble getting on top of and at the OS drag day I couldn't get it to rev to the limiter - seems to have solved it. With yours I'd try smoothing out that that big jump up to 4v - maybe go 0.5 > 1.0 > 1.5 then scale up from there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks Stu, appreciate the input. Will try it this afternoon and see how it goes! Looks as though I can get a crank trigger wheel for about $60 so I'll swap it over as well for peace of mind. But maybe not before trackday this coming monday, I've got enough other things to finish before then haha. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Good news and bad news part deux Changing the arming voltage got the car idling sweet! Tuned the shit out of the ISCV and got the car idling really nice and starts up without any throttle. Woot! However... The crank tooth problem rears its head again at about 6000rpm. No way to fix it with the arming voltage / filter settings. I put the scope on it and the 'normal' teeth read about 18 volts but the bung tooth only reads about 6 and doesnt get any higher. Sadface. Even setting the threshold to 3v or whatever doesnt help, I think because it's such a big voltage drop from the other teeth. However after several iterations of driving around datalogging, pulling over, amending the map, etc etc I've pretty much got fuel at about 13:1 across the board at the moment which is a good start before fine tuning. Well, up to 6,000rpm at least. Heh. VVTI doesnt seem to be working either but I think i turned it off somehow when trying to get the car idling. Woops my bad haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Fingers crossed the welded tooth works - very interested as a mate of mine tried this on his 2jz but it didn't work but saying that I don't know how accurate he was 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah I hope so! Well it worked with the factory ECU fine, right to 7400 limit. We checked with the dial gauge but also measured the gaps / angles and got them all bang on too. Being .1mm / .2mm out was enough to cause a problem, no way you could really get it good enough with just calipers or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toucan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm loving your scientific approach to car modification. Keep it up! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Hey thanks. Yes I've enjoyed that aspect of things so getting new ECU setup is tip of the iceberg.Once I've got the basics sorted the next thing I'm going to look at is setting up some lights controlled by various tables/logic in the ECU.For example, I can set a light on the dash that comes on if I'm at more than 25% throttle and air fuel ratio goes above 15:1 (With these two things adjustable to whatever suits)So if I'm tuning I can back off a lean spot without having to look at gauges, or if I'm at a trackday or whatever and having fuelling issues I can easily know about it without blowing up my engine.This is better than having an AFR gauge, because often you dont have time to look at a digital number flashing all over the show. And there's a decel ignition cut where when you back off the throttle it cuts off the injectors. So I want to exclude that condition from when the light would turn on, as it shows that it runs lean (it's meant to!)Or another example, I could use a combination of vehicle speed and engine bay temperature to trigger a fan, water sprayer, or something like that.Cant wait to get to that part! Although once my trigger issues are sorted the general tuning should be fun too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 just a suggestion for numbers on your light. i would set it up at a higher throttle % and a lower afr. anything around 14afr is going to be bad at high load. you could also set it up to do an ignition trim, if it goes lean under high load. which will move it away from detonation, till you solve the fuel problem. also if your vvt hasn't been working. maybe worth reloading that base map. as switching it back on will go lean if you have corrected for no vvt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennis Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 megasquirt stuff isnt as hard as you think either, just pricey but i actually like it better than the link just because, would love the OEM ecu cabin plugs if your junking that stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japawagons Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 For one thing 14 to 14.8 isn't going to be causing an engine failure on a NA beams engine under heavy load... I'd see even 15 is safe. I'd just be running a wideband with live tuning. Set your ideal values and percent the wideband can modify your base map and it will adjust itself the same way a factory ecu does. No need for lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japawagons Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I have no idea why everyone runs there engines so rich. Twek the engine mixtures for best power. Engines are hugely varying in this regard. Fiat twin cams have been known to make highest power in the low 15s. Some engines love excessive fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 no afr is going to be unsafe with correct timing. just 14's is going to be the the worst with wrong timing. above will just get more an more gutless till it starts to miss fire. long periods at the hottest burn(around stoich) is just going put more demand on cooling system, and generally make less power i'd rather not trust a wideband to correct the fuel too much at high load. if it goes lean at high load there is a reason. something has shit itself. trying to jam more fuel in isn't going to solve it anyway pretty sure he is more suggesting things that he could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japawagons Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Wideband adjustment is best for alpha n tuning as its hard to tune load changes into it. For a warning system on a map sensor tuned system would be all you need... Why does it need more fuel then stoich? A serious question. I'd like a experienced explanation as to why people run there NA engines so rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 long periods at the hottest burn(around stoich) is just going put more demand on cooling system, and generally make less power 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hey so some good progress! I found out that the VVTI wasnt working, because it was in test mode also the crank gear now works fine to at least 8500rpm Having 8000rpm is glorious! Doesnt sound like much more than 7400rpm but it makes a big difference. It runs out of puff by then though, but it's still worth holding in gear longer each time. I've just left ignition and VVTI alone for the moment and concentrated on getting fuel sorted. Got to 13.8 AFR across the board at WOT and still mucking around a bit with sorting out the low load areas. Under high load the engine with basemap is running 23 degrees advance on ignition, which from some discussion with KPR and some other reading seems a reasonable start point. Yeah I'm going to setup that AFR light as mentioned, then play around with it. I figure I can have two lights setup. One as a shift light. And then the other, I can use it for whatever I'm tinkering with at the time, if I want to know when certain variables are reached or whatever. So for example, testing engine bay fan setup or something, could have it linked to a temperature switch or something. Once it's wired in, it can do whatever I like by adjusting the variables which control it in the ECU. If I get around to rigging up a light before the trackday on monday I'll test out an AFR light as mentioned and see how it goes. On the whole though, pretty damn happy that it's all up and running!! It's running way smoother than it did with the factory ECU which was constantly trying to advance the bejesus out of the ignition timing. Absolutely super super looking forward to trackday this coming Monday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ahh another thing. I'm getting the hang of tuning with a map sensor now! Making changes to the engine with a MAF sensor you try to get the MAF number higher across the board. Making changes with a MAP the KPA number stays the same and you look for changes to the fuel to show if it's ingesting more air or not. I've got my map sensor plugged into the throttle body. It shows that after about 6,000rpm the pressure drops across it. So that means the intake upstream of the throttle is starting to be a restriction at this point. Which is not something I could test with a MAF, so that's interesting. I've got two MAP sensors here so I'll wire up the second one and put it into various points in the inlet tract / plenum. Then datalog the pressure differences to find out what is causing the restriction. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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