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Hyperblade's KP61 Racecar "KP61R" Discussion


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13 hours ago, smokin'joe said:

being contact with original builder is the key, from when i talked to tech office

It does make it easier, but you should still be able to get the changes through it just might need more pushing from your side.

I know someone who got an old cage homologated under the new rules so it is doable.

Of course if they want everyone to use HANS they are going to have to get their shit sorted as there will be a lot of cages which will need harness bars due to the belt angles.

Have a talk to Deane/Brent at Palmside (They did my cage changes) they might be able to advise you on if it's likely you can get your changes through.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Dang that axle popping, very lucky not to be hurt.

Do you think it was vibration at speed that caused it to let go? or was it just unlucky timing, would have thought it would let go at low speed where there is max Torque?

Excellent build love the setup.

LOVE BEAMS :)

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15 hours ago, _Matt said:

Love how this is coming along!

How did you remove the old underseal? I’ve started scraping mine off and it’s taking forever!

It's a nightmare.

I tried a number of things, but what worked best was a Clean and Strip Disc on a grinder

e.g. https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/10311-toolshed-clean-and-strip-disc-115mm?categoryId=1918

It doesn't heat it up so it comes off fairly well, it does however create massive mess (I'll still be finding bits in the garage for years to come)

However you do end up going through a lot of them as they wear out, and you have to be so careful you don't catch them on anything otherwise large chunks come off.

 

The other thing I tried that worked was an Oscillating Tools, it came off in nice flakes, the only downside was it was really hard to get into hollows and corners, but would work ok on flat panels. It was also fairly hard on the tool.

e.g. https://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/product/6288-milwaukee-m12-cordless-multi-tool-12v-bare-tool-

 

I tried a wire cup on grinder and it just smeared it.

I've also heard water blasting it might be an option, keeps it cool.

 

12 hours ago, Matt G said:

Dang that axle popping, very lucky not to be hurt.

Do you think it was vibration at speed that caused it to let go? or was it just unlucky timing, would have thought it would let go at low speed where there is max Torque?

Excellent build love the setup.

LOVE BEAMS :)

We had just replace the rear universal, so it was ether an installation error, or it just was a cheap universal that failed. Certainly reinforces that having a drive shaft hoop is a must.

RE BEAMS, You might want to keep reading the build thread ;) 

 

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Anyone got any good info on plenum sizing?

Currently is 1.8L but I can easily add spacers to increase, from what I've seen on the internet people say around 3-3.5L is better, cause reasons... Negative maybe affects throttle response? Not sure if on part throttle how big an issue that is???

I have the space available so easy to do now... Might also allow injectors in their...

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  • 2 months later...

@Roman

Honda Plenum Sizing FYI

RBB (06-08 TSX)

  • Part #: 17110-RBB-000
  • Weight: 6.2kg
  • Throttle body opening: 60mm (with idle bypass)
  • Runner Length: 31.0cm
  • Runner width: 4.4cm (min)
  • Runner width: 4.8cm (max)
  • Individual runner volume: 492.5cc
  • Total runner volume: 1970cc
  • Plenum volume: 1650cc
  • Total manifold volume: 3620cc

RBC (CL7) (supposedly one of the best)

  • Part #: 17100-RBC-J00
  • Weight: 4.5kg
  • Throttle body opening: 62mm (with idle bypass)
  • Runner Length: 18.5cm
  • Runner width: 4.8cm (min)
  • Runner width: 5.1cm (max)
  • Individual runner volume: 270cc
  • Total runner volume: 1080cc
  • Plenum volume: 1720cc
  • Total manifold volume: 2800cc

RSP (FN2)

  • Part #:
  • 17100-RSP-G00
  • 17101-RSP-G00
  • 17102-RSP-G01
  • 17103-RSP-G00
  • Weight: 5.6kg
  • Throttle body opening: 64mm (no idle bypass)
  • Runner Length *1: 25.5cm
  • Runner Length *2: 19.5cm
  • Runner width: 4.8cm (min)
  • Runner width *1: 5.8cm (max)
  • Runner width *2: 5.1cm (max)
  • Individual runner volume: 295cc
  • Individual velocity stack volume: 105cc
  • Total runner volume *1: 1600cc
  • Total runner volume *2: 1180cc
  • Plenum volume *1: 2530cc
  • Plenum volume *2: 2950cc
  • Torque Chamber volume: 800cc
  • Total manifold volume: 4930cc

*1 with velocity stacks fitted
*2 without velocity stacks fitted

RRC (FD2)

  • Part #: 17100-RRC-000
  • Weight: xx kg
  • Throttle body opening: 64mm
  • Runner Length: ~ 19.0cm
  • Runner width: ~5.1cm (min)
  • Runner width: ~5.3cm (max)
  • Individual runner volume: xxxcc
  • Total runner volume: xxxxcc
  • Plenum volume: xxxxcc
  • Total manifold volume: xxxxcc
     

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

This is all coming together nicely! 

Good work on that ducting, looks great. Nice idea having those foldable tabs on the curved part.

And yeah it can sometimes be surprising how little thought goes into some aftermarket parts! 

Love the bussmann boxes I'll definitely not bother mucking around with big DIY relay/fuse boards etc anymore.

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1 hour ago, Roman said:

This is all coming together nicely! 

Good work on that ducting, looks great. Nice idea having those foldable tabs on the curved part.

And yeah it can sometimes be surprising how little thought goes into some aftermarket parts! 

Love the bussmann boxes I'll definitely not bother mucking around with big DIY relay/fuse boards etc anymore.

Thanks!

The ducting takes a while, lots of planning, but i'm getting practiced at it now. Riveting makes it easy, no special tools required.

I would love a bussmann box with more relays, I always seem to run out, but i prefer having everything centralized rather then have full amps going through a switch.

I suppose PDM's are taking over that space, but they are still to expensive for number of outputs.

 

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  • 4 months later...
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  • 1 month later...

Congrats on first shake down! 
One thing to consider is that even if power were the same, your power to weight ratio has improved on account of the weight loss. 
And less weight in the heftiest part of the car, so there are handling gains too.
Also the peripheral benefits you mentioned at the start, like excellent aftermarket support means there's heaps of scope for development. 
I'm stoked to see it running, look forward to seeing further developments!
I reckon you can easily wring a bit more out of the motor with some tweaks.
The best part and most fun part is definitely yet to come. 
Thanks for your efforts to document the actual changes etc, I think this is legitimately the first time I've seen an attempt at a fair comparison. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 22/11/2021 at 16:32, Roman said:

Congrats on first shake down! 
One thing to consider is that even if power were the same, your power to weight ratio has improved on account of the weight loss. 
And less weight in the heftiest part of the car, so there are handling gains too.
Also the peripheral benefits you mentioned at the start, like excellent aftermarket support means there's heaps of scope for development. 
I'm stoked to see it running, look forward to seeing further developments!
I reckon you can easily wring a bit more out of the motor with some tweaks.
The best part and most fun part is definitely yet to come. 
Thanks for your efforts to document the actual changes etc, I think this is legitimately the first time I've seen an attempt at a fair comparison. 

Thanks!

I alluded to it in my post, but the retarders on the dyno had changed from 110v to 220v, so it's not an apple to apples comparison, i.e if it was on the 110v it may show a bit more on the sheet.

Yep all of those apply, the engine has a lot more easy potential then the 3SGE if I want to go down that route.

Probably the thing to do next would be a decent set of quad throttles, as I'm sure my intake isn't ideal with the double bend, but that's a lot more money then I want to spend at the moment, need to get the car consistent again first and actually do a full race season.

After the last shakedown and being able to stay in the throttle all the way, I can safely say it really pulls hard in the top of the revs i.e from 7000 to 9000 the power just does not drop off like the 3SGE did and the beauty is on gear change it drops to 6700 again right into 200hp again, unlike the 3SGE, so it accelerates really hard.

It feels very different in a good way. I'm also hitting max RPM in 6th now which is around 210kph where as before I was only hitting 195kph odd, so it's certainly a fair bit faster.

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I've got an F-series diff in my corolla, and I was able to swap the pinion flange from the factory S-series onto the F-series pinion, so didn't need to adapt the flange. I wonder if you could do the same with a hilux flange on the 86 diff?

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13 hours ago, ajg193 said:

If you need any stuff turned up on a lathe or mill just hit me up and I'll sort you out super quickly

Thanks! I had seen your post and was keeping it mind, only reason I didn't go with you for the flange was I had spent quite a bit of time discussing it with Bert, so don't like to do that to him. The reducer I finally got in the mood to do some work and just wanted to get it out of the way, some better planning from my end and I could have got you to do a much nicer job then I did! I'm sure I'll be in touch at some point in the future :)

1 hour ago, GARDRB said:

I've got an F-series diff in my corolla, and I was able to swap the pinion flange from the factory S-series onto the F-series pinion, so didn't need to adapt the flange. I wonder if you could do the same with a hilux flange on the 86 diff?

We had a look at it but was different sizing. I also need to be very careful with where the diff flange is positioned as the only in and out movement in the driveshaft is the CV joint which is limited to 10 odd mm each way so diff flange can't change position.

No big deal, I drew up the AE86 flange in CAD with where the new bolt holes are going

image.png.fb8796b8f971be4a5ecd4f3b335f0f33.png

Then designed up the adapter flange which will go over the diff flange from the back

image.png.b4d44951941444c60bb8efc6e6d7c745.png

Should be pretty straight forward on a lathe, and will give the diff flange the extra strength required, not worth taking a chance on just the AE86 diff flange when the driveshaft is spinning at 9500rpm.

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  • 5 months later...

2.5mm hole in the thermostat seems a little small. Thats a lot of time for the hot water to work its way up the outlet pipe to the thermostat, while also getting cooled on the way further delaying the thermostat seeing the real temperature.

I have crewed on a few methanol race cars and they had a 6mm or larger thermostat bypass,(either around the thermostat, or back to the pump suction to allow some water flow during warmup) with the thermostat as close to the block as possible to enable it to open once it got up to temp.

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7 hours ago, fletch said:

2.5mm hole in the thermostat seems a little small. Thats a lot of time for the hot water to work its way up the outlet pipe to the thermostat, while also getting cooled on the way further delaying the thermostat seeing the real temperature.

I have crewed on a few methanol race cars and they had a 6mm or larger thermostat bypass,(either around the thermostat, or back to the pump suction to allow some water flow during warmup) with the thermostat as close to the block as possible to enable it to open once it got up to temp.

Yeah it does seem crazy small.

However Davies Craig thought it was ok. And it's what I've been recommended by someone who uses it on all the race escorts, mazdas etc. He said it's surprising how much water actually flows through a hole that small.

The other thing to keep in mind is that on a circuit car on the warm up lap where your going slow (70 to 100kph) with low rpm but have quite a bit of airflow over the radiator so it's hard to get it up to temp.

But at the end of the day I won't know until I get it on track and easy enough to make it bigger, then to make it smaller!

I wanted to avoid a bypass pipe as it just clutters up the engine bay and adds more points of failure, so hoping this solution works.

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