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Hyperblade's KP61 Racecar "KP61R" Discussion


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1 hour ago, Truenotch said:

Yeah, that live axle life is tricky! I've been trying to come up with a nice solution for a while. I'm always worried that the air will catch the top of the diffuser panel and cause more harm than it's worth. 

Stiffer springs makes sense too. The more aero grip you generate, the less spring compliance you need (in theory). What rates are you running at the moment? 

Talking with someone in the know on aero, he recommended doing a double diffuser to deal with the air on top, i can't at this stage due to the fuel tank, but might be an option in the future.

Currently it will still eventually find a way out, but just be a lot more inefficient. A better option might be to work on the lead up to the axle so you have less overall air going over the top.

However you do need to be careful with Diff cooling then.

Front: 400lb

Rear: 350lbs

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27 minutes ago, mjrstar said:

Couple of pics of my splitter on the civic. 

3 pins slide into box section on the rad support panel. It's getting a fair bit of a beating, I smash it back straight(ish) after just about every event. 

 

I'm not a big fan of ali for a splitter, if you go off road it has tendancy to dig in and fold over on itself.

The strength over a larger area means you have to put in a serious amount of support work, especially around the edges. (My splitter goes all the way back to the firewall)

I think 4mm ACM might be better for this potentially, even 4mm plywood would be pretty good as you have a good structure for it and would be a bit more robust.

23 minutes ago, mjrstar said:

Plus the diffuser, I used 2mm aluminium for 2 reasons, it was free and I wanted to practice my Ali tig skills.. 

I also have run into rear bias issues, the plan for this weekend is to install adjustable proportioning valve. 

That diffuser looks fairly aggressive! I've only gone for a 7degree angle (vertically only) as going for more really requires a good flow of air clean air to it (i.e flat floor) which i don't have.

You might find if you made it less aggressive it will be more effective, also if you have a rear wing or gurney flap it can help it.

Thanks for sharing, always good to see how others have done it!

 

 

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The splitter trims weeds so well though, it has lasted well so far and has some pretty decent grooves in it. Its also a truckload more work than a plywood when you consider the welding required to stiffen it. 

 

The rear diffuser is almost certainly too aggressive angle, and too high off the ground, it probably helps that it sits up against the fuel tank at the front edge and extends forwards a bit. 

 

Does it make the car any faster, who knows but so long as you think it is that's all that really matters.

Motorsports is mostly a mind game, having OK equipment does help though. 

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20180907_112819.jpg

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1 hour ago, mjrstar said:

The splitter trims weeds so well though, it has lasted well so far and has some pretty decent grooves in it. Its also a truckload more work than a plywood when you consider the welding required to stiffen it. 

 

The rear diffuser is almost certainly too aggressive angle, and too high off the ground, it probably helps that it sits up against the fuel tank at the front edge and extends forwards a bit. 

 

Does it make the car any faster, who knows but so long as you think it is that's all that really matters.

Motorsports is mostly a mind game, having OK equipment does help though. 

 

 

Hah! should have seen my splitter after going into the gravel, came out with a rock garden on top of it, when they pulled me out the car started to submarine further in, still finding gravel in odd places.

I have a spare splitter ready to go if i break it, beauty of plywood was a simple pattern and just drilling a few holes.

It's a good entry to the diffuser, wish i had it as simple! Rear wheel drive makes it a lot harder.

Hard to tell too on a hill climb, as opposed to a circuit where you can push the limits a little more without major risk.

 

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Half assed out loud thoughts... 

If you had an equal length 4 link that kept the diff nose angle steady, could you just mount a diffuser to a live axle? 

It wouldnt compress the suspension but it'd still push the wheels into the ground and always be same height above the track haha.

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50 minutes ago, Roman said:

Half assed out loud thoughts... 

If you had an equal length 4 link that kept the diff nose angle steady, could you just mount a diffuser to a live axle? 

It wouldnt compress the suspension but it'd still push the wheels into the ground and always be same height above the track haha.

Not allowed to mount aero to suspension, nice try ;)

 

Quote
5.13
Aerodynamic Devices: Any part of the vehicle that has an aerodynamic influence on stability shall be mounted on the entirely sprung part of the vehicle, be firmly affixed and not exceed the following limits:

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 14/05/2019 at 22:51, spanners said:

Ha I’m pretty sure that driveshaft hoop was my old one! Can’t believe it suffered that badly. Also you’re probably still using my old engine cross member, glad to see parts live on forever 

My understanding is they are both your old parts! They are getting some good use now.

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  • 3 months later...

Interested in your experience ordering / build quality / driving thoughts on the MCA Reds? I'm considering going down the same route for my car (Datsun Sunny so similar weight and suspension layout to your car). $3k+ seems like a good price after you price up what some Bilsteins etc cost. What spring rates did you go for? 

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16 hours ago, BobbyBreeze said:

Interested in your experience ordering / build quality / driving thoughts on the MCA Reds? I'm considering going down the same route for my car (Datsun Sunny so similar weight and suspension layout to your car). $3k+ seems like a good price after you price up what some Bilsteins etc cost. What spring rates did you go for? 

I was looking at the fortune auto originally, but when i contacted them they were unsure about the valving, and I would have had to send them all the way back to the US if they were wrong, which didn't make sense to me...

I ended up going through Deane and Bert at Palmside. 

There was a couple of reason for that, one was that I didn't want to be responsible for the measurements I wanted someone who knew what they were doing. So I took the car in as it was previously and Bert measured everything and worked out what would need to be done and also what needed to be modified on the car (which was the rear shock towers to clearance the shocks that were slightly larger) he could speak their lingo so I knew they would arrive in the correct state for fitment.

The other is that Deane works directly with Murray for the Rally guys and so already had that line of communication.

Because I wanted the damper adjusting at the top of the front shocks Murray got Josh to supply the main shocks, then did some further machining to suit my car.

They took 2 weeks longer then planned to arrive as MCA was busy with stuff.

When they arrived Bert then had to fit them to the stub axles I supplied then he cut down the blank camber plates to suit my existing hole spacing (T3) which meant they all just bolted in (this was the advantage of getting someone to measure and plan it all, as off the shelf camber plates would not have worked).

It all bolted in as expected which was nice. Quality seems good so far, only had one issue which is the height adjusting ring coming undone on the front, and they have advised on what i need to do to fix that, so will see how that goes. Other thing to note is they don't come with brake line holders, which for me is not an issue.

Spring rates they recommended were 7kg (400lb) front and 3.5kg (200lb) rear i was previously running 400/350 (rear was too hard which i knew).

So a fairly big change on the rear for me, which was noticeable, a lot more grip. They are definitely better then my old ones (Blisten HD/Gaz) as i can actually run over the curbs and it soaks them up, where as before it would be bouncing me off them across the track. Also the whole car is not rolling as much, even with softer springs on the rear.

 

 

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  • 7 months later...

Oooohhh @Hyperbladethis gonna be good! 

Keen to see how this turns out. I very seriously doubt you'll regret this :D

I'd love to do the same, I really want to have a play with tuning an I-VTEC engine. 
But I'm not very good at fabricating things and so a few aspects of the swap are too hard basket for me. 
So might be easier for me to just to buy a DC5 or something haha.

dont be shy on details for this one, interested to see what parts you use and what fabrication challenges there are etc. 

 

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Just now, Roman said:

Oooohhh @Hyperbladethis gonna be good! 

Keen to see how this turns out. I very seriously doubt you'll regret this :D

I'd love to do the same, I really want to have a play with tuning an I-VTEC engine. 
But I'm not very good at fabricating things and so a few aspects of the swap are too hard basket for me. 
So might be easier for me to just to buy a DC5 or something haha.

dont be shy on details for this one, interested to see what parts you use and what fabrication challenges there are etc. 

 

 

Was just gonna say I bet I know what that is.. Think you just confirmed it. 

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Nice work, as always :) . Looking forward to seeing the new engine come to life. 

As for your suspension mods - the rear bar should make a huge difference to balance! There's always new challenges that come with adding components to racecars, but getting the front/rear roll stiffness balanced out makes a lot of sense. 

Interesting about the shock valving too! Sounds like it will be a completely different car to drive once they've been re-valved. 

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9 hours ago, Roman said:

Oooohhh @Hyperbladethis gonna be good! 

Keen to see how this turns out. I very seriously doubt you'll regret this :D

I'd love to do the same, I really want to have a play with tuning an I-VTEC engine. 
But I'm not very good at fabricating things and so a few aspects of the swap are too hard basket for me. 
So might be easier for me to just to buy a DC5 or something haha.

dont be shy on details for this one, interested to see what parts you use and what fabrication challenges there are etc. 

 

It's not a cheap swap, but there is some stuff that would make it easier, I will be very detailed. I can't weld so the main fitment will be done by Bert @ palmside exhaust done by JPW Performance and I think I can do the rest with off the shelf parts.

8 hours ago, piazzanoob said:

also keen to see the progress on this!

And yes i was that annoying person asking questions about it on FB  :-D

ill just let the updates answer my questions  

Feel free to ask away here happy to answer questions, I am working with Speed Science on giving them updates for their facebook, so I can't get ahead of those, but I can be a lot more detailed here.

8 hours ago, yetchh said:

 

Was just gonna say I bet I know what that is.. Think you just confirmed it. 

2L K20a Type R motor :)

7 hours ago, Truenotch said:

Nice work, as always :) . Looking forward to seeing the new engine come to life. 

As for your suspension mods - the rear bar should make a huge difference to balance! There's always new challenges that come with adding components to racecars, but getting the front/rear roll stiffness balanced out makes a lot of sense. 

Interesting about the shock valving too! Sounds like it will be a completely different car to drive once they've been re-valved. 

The rear sway bar made a huge difference, the car was so much flatter, even with the valving wrong in the shock it was an improvement. I had Bert drive the car and he picked up the valving being wrong straight away, but said overall the car handled really well, so fingers crossed the car is transformed when i get the shocks back.

 

Here's with no sway bar.

Here's with the sway bar.

 

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Will be interesting to see how this fits height wise in a starlet engine bay.
Beams motor is annoying for tallness but K is a bit more again I believe.

But maybe not so bad with a 20 instead of a 24.
Hopefully works out well without too much trouble but my understanding is you'll probably need a sump made too.
I'm genuinely looking forward to an honest comparison of beams vs K motor in the same car, same dyno etc etc.
In terms of power, weight, how it drives, yada yada.
It's so hard to get genuinely comparative information without so many external contributing factors making a difference.
Is that the BMW box it's mated up to? 
Gonna be awesome :D

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