Scribblesz Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 3sge in a 1975 mk2 escort?I have an escort before you ask -.- and 3sge engines going for about less than 2k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizer Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 4afe in a 1985 rx7? /Might want to expand on your question a little bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted January 19, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2014 Hi Scribblez, There's a bit of a false economy with Beams motors - Due to some complexity in the fuel system and Electronics which make them actually a lot more expensive to fit than it first seems when purchasing a motor. There are a few problems that need addressing when swapping beams motors into a different car: -Factory dual mass flywheel is a piece of crap, aftermarket lightweight flywheel + new clutch adds another grand or so to the purchase price. -The motor uses a returnless fuel line system, that runs at a higher pressure than most cars.The options for fixing it are to use a fuel rail from a FWD beams engine with an adjustable FPR fitted, tapping the standard fuel rail to accept an FPR, or fitting the Altezza fuel pump in the gas tank. Any which of those options would likely cost you $500+ -The gearbox shifter position is on par with a remote shift W57 gearbox, AKA really fucking far back. However you can unbolt the shifter, flip around the part on the end of the gearbox shaft and bolt it further forward which is handy. Any old W series driveshaft (or auto equivilent) shares the same spline though which is handy. -Electronic speedo drive in the gearbox - good luck getting your speedo working if it runs from a cable. (which it does)You can convert the gearbox to a cable drive using a W57 speedo drive, but then the ECU throws error codes if it doesnt get a speed signal. -Electronic throttle body These motors have a shit house electric throttle body, the cable only pulls the throttle about 1/4 open and the ECU does the rest. So you need a pedal position sensor mounted on your gas pedal, which is a bit of faffing around. -Finnicky airflow meter If the airflow meter is not contained in the right shape/size housing, the ECU shits its pants. This means fitting a pod filter or similar yeilds crappy results on standard ECU, (20hp atw less, in my case) and the factory airbox is a fucked up shape that you'll not likely be able to fit. -Big plenum The intake on these is a bit of a huge bitch, might be a tight squeeze into an escort. At this stage most people decide it would be a good idea to use quad throttle bodies instead, which means.... -Disregard ECU, aquire aftermarket oneBy this stage most people have probably spent $6-8k, and then need to buy a $2k ECU and about a grand for tuning. If you're running a standard motor with standard manifold or quads, standard exhaust etc you can expect between 110-135kw at the wheels depending on a few things. You'll also need to upgrade your brakes to get a cert, get a wheel alignment within 1/2 degree of factory camber, fit driveshaft loops (which is horrible) and jump through a few more expensive and time consuming hoops. Soo if you are happy with having your car off the road for 2 years or so, spending 10k and having 130ish kw at the wheels then yep sweet. Personally I think for a first project, and size/weight of the car it makes more sense to opt for a 4AGE.A T50 gearbox fits easier, the engine is a lot simpler electronically etc and can run on the standard ECU (or a cheap aftermarket one, no VVTI etc) and it's a much more sensible hassle free option for a first engine swap. A standard bluetop 4AGE swapped would cost less than half the time and money, and still be heaps of fun to drive.Otherwise something like an SR20DE is also a lot simpler to install and get running.If you want to get an idea of what's involved in a beams motor swap, there are quite a few in the project section - do a search for 'beams' and you'll find a fair few in various states of deconstruction haha.also for what it's worth, by the time I've (nearly) finished my beams project, I actually enjoy driving my other car with a standard motor just as much, because I'm now old and dont care so much for hooning around.Kind Regards, Roman 'Been there done that and hate myself for it' Dave. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 haha AMEN to all that ^^ Link ecu saves so much mucking around. w5# mechanical speedo drive works sweet with the Link. not sure how this would work with the escort. 2 years and more than $10,000 is accurate. Personally i would be going for a 1uzfe lexus v8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribblesz Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 -.- fuck spending that much money, may aswell buy another car or save for something else. honestly can someone just donate a good Cosworth YB engine to me?Is it true that sr20 engines were OP at first, but then nissan toned it down? Rt said "also remember that it's the early SR20's that are the business..early nineties. The later model ones arn't as good. The bean counters at Nissan figured out that the engine was over engineered so they toned it down. The later SR's can't be made into the weapons that the earlier ones could." like here's Ed's SR20 build so if I do decide to do an sr20 swap in the esky i can check his out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Even a simple swap (like an early SR20DE) would still cost you $3-5k or so to do, if you can do all of the work yourself and keep the factory diff etc. If you need any assistance from a fabricator etc then that price starts going up pretty quickly.Things like getting a custom made drivshaft, engine mounts, gearbox mount, fluids etc, new radiator, radiator hoses, new exhaust, new clutch (would be silly not to) and so on.There's a good reason a lot of people buy lego-esque cars like Cefiros, as everything just bolts straight in.My car was relatively lego-ish, and it's still been a lot of work. Also unless you do a lot of work to the suspension/brakes/etc, something like a $2000 Integra or MR2 will still rip your car a new asshole in every which way.Doesnt mean your car will be any less fun though. The most fun car I've ever owned was a 1300cc Toyota Starlet that was a complete heap, yet was hilariously awesome to drive. Buy someone elses finished project, or just buy a car that's fast to begin with if that's what you're after.For a first project just try something simple like fitting a 1600cc Ford engine of some sort that bolts straight in, it will still be a lot of work to get going as there are always unforeseeable expenses and complications.Oooorrr, as alluded to in the other thread in a less than subtle way, spend the money on beer, partying and travelling and keep your car as is.You'll have a much better time overall. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB8-TypeR Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Just FYI for motor swaps, I completed one a few years ago, putting a B18c into a Honda Shuttle. The reason I mention this is that there are kits available for engine mounts etc making it essentially a bolt in, wire up and your done job, heres how it was priced: -Engine, gearbox, loom, ecu, shift linkages, axles, basically everything you need to make it go $1200 -Engine mounts $400 -Cert $400 Thats pretty cheap right? $2000 for a engine swap. Ok so how about all the stuff you havnt thought of? -Brake upgrade, new discs, calipers, brakepads, brake m/c and booster, braided brake lines $400 -Cambelt, water pump, crank seal, other belts $400 (no point putting in a motor if you havnt changed the stuff when its out and easy) -Oil, gearbox oil, brake fluid $160 -New CV's, Clutch, spigot bearing etc and skim flywheel $600 -New exhaust and headers to fit new engine $800 -New cat converter since you need one for a cert $200 Well thats only another $2500 which isnt too bad (it was actually more but I cant remember what else I bought) but since Im going to cert it then I might as well do the suspension -Coilovers $1000 Oh now I need camber arms for cert -$300 Damn its a old car so it needs new suspension bushes -$300 Hmm thats another $1600, so far we are looking at $6100 the motor and gearbox was $1200 and it was a bolt in job with minimal custom work. The only stuff I paid people to do was weld up the exhaust Engine swaps aint cheap, they are fun and you learn a bit but if you just want a fun car now buy one that is already fun. The engine swap I listed above took 10days from old engine out to new engine in and running. The fine tuning and finishing off the rest of the stuff took another year (to be fair I lost interest which happens) After all this I sold it about a year after I finished it for a substantial loss, reason? From when I started it to when it was finished my car needs had changed. I already had a Integra Type R which was better in every way from the factory and much more enjoyable to drive. I almost wished I had left the standard engine in and just lowered the shit out of it (which I did anyway with the swap) and rolled as was. It wasnt any faster than a standard B18c Integra that the engine came out of, just unique. Would I do it again? Probably as I learned a lot but for the money I spent I could have made my already fun to drive Integra faster or had a really nice car second car instead 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribblesz Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Okay thanks for the info Esky will just be stock and ill look at another car to project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB8-TypeR Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 If you want a cool old car, buy one you like, make it immaculate, lower it on nice wheels and call it done. Nothing else you do will change the fact that it is an old car and drives like one(without throwing a shit tonne of time and money at it). Starting off with something quick will help (fast and quick are different things) If you want a fast car buy one that already is and inhance it edit/ for the record Im not saying never do an engine swap, Im just saying your young and you want a car to drive around in, hopefully pull chicks and just have fun with. If its stuck in the shed with no engine for 3years its pretty hard to do any of that. So spend what money you have on something you can already do all that stuff in and then when you have a good job and spare money do what you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingbrick Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 two things I want to add to these other great posts. Firstly. 99.99% of people won't recognize how cool your expensive engine swapped escort really is. most (all) women won't care about it. The general population will just see you as someone driving a shit old car- oblivious to how much you have spent underneath. SO If image is important to you then buy something newer. Secondly, there are many cheap ways of making an old car drive much nicer as your daily If that's what you want. It amazes me how much cheap stuff I have procrastinated on and then gone PISS CAKES Should have done this year's ago. Here's a quick list. New suspension bushes (just rubber as its quiet) general engine tune up by professional-clean out carb do timing change rotor plugs etc cchange wiper blades. wipe inside of major Windows with anti fog solution because sometimes old cars can be shit at De misting and being damp inside. give it a good clean get someone who knows stuff to give it a quick re spray. Polish the Haze out of your EExterior plastics. Second Hand lowering Springs new socks etc etc. just my opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattscort Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 pinto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattscort Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 if you wanna pull buy something with a bench seat, most chicks don't care about speed they just wanna be comfy and feel like they are part of what your doing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 if you wanna pull buy a bright blue Toyota Echo, 2 door of course Fixed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneo Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Any thing old school make a statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin'joe Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 unsure if it sold or not, but Nevster Kidd was selling the whole 3sge /gearbox package from his Mk2 rally car. bolt in ready to go for around $2k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribblesz Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Does anyone know where I coukd get some parts for my escort? Like maybe some interior bits at the back which the sun has completely dried up, or that plastic gutter thing above the door? I know where I can buy some chrome film amd put it over the plastic, I just want to find the plastic bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB8-TypeR Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Trademe, parts exchange on here, eBay etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribblesz Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Roman would it be easy/cheaper to buy a cheap 3s altez and just rip the parts from that and put it into a diff car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingbrick Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Yes. That would be cheaper. . However you still have many hurdles to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTorque Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 3sge in a 1975 mk2 escort? //oldschool.co.nz/index.php?/topic/24334-lownslows-fe3t-mk1-escort/?p=1214841 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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