Individual Throttle Body tech

[kyteler]

Needs more pictures in Inline6 SOHC format.

....aaaand GO!

[Spencer]

^ as long as its cross flow, then maybe

Old v10 setup from a Ferrari f1 stz

Barf, the MS3 code was just ported over from the MS2 extra code as fae as I'm aware. So they took everyone else's work for the MS3 code and now have locked it down. If Fred stops living in his car and gets his project back under way in about 5 years we might have a true open source EMS

[BobbyBreeze]

Not crossflow, is it allowed?

Been thinking about Barrel and slide throttles as of late. Mate is modelling some roller barrels up for his SR at the moment. Apparently they are poose for outboard injection though.

[R100]

How come no one liked my SU style multicarb idea ? Most of us are DIY guys and not that rich. Im pretty sure it would work sweet.

[Simon]

Someone said that the carbs don't like being on a single runner due the the pulse interference coming back up the inlet and probably causing havoc with the carbs magic parts.

Makes sense.

[Spencer]

The gains for slides and barrels just aren't worth it. They both hamper running outboards which is worth way more power than the restriction of a butterfly. F1 are running butterflies

This from a race car building company, talking of the merits of taper throttle bodies, brad knows the one

Also we have found that the use of a 45mm butterfly in junction with a taper has improved throttle response. We carried out tests quite a few years ago comparing a taper throttle body with a slide throttle; both being of a similar size, as it is had been suggested to us that an intake system such as slide or barrel throttle systems, would surely produce more power because there is no butterfly restricting the port. The back-to-back test showed virtually no difference in peak power at all, but the throttle response on the taper body system was significantly better than the slide system. We also have found more recently in tests the similar poor throttle response with barrel throttles.

Cant find the high quality version of the F1 car at idle, but this is lush. Still getting some mild standoff at full RPM but its so well tuned how it wont fog on only the one injector

[kyteler]

I wonder how a shutter throttle system would go, probably more complication that it's worth I imagine, still.. would be cool!

[Spencer]

^ yea it still would have issues, probably more than a butterfly and would still be gay for outboards

The answer to this throttle question is using a continuously variable valve lift system. You can then have no throttle plate at all just a straight intake. There are several of these systems out there but none are cheap/simple/cost effective etc to be in mass production but it wont be far away. I think BMW has one, maybe Hyundai

[R100]

Valvetronic

Also some other engine i saw once used electronic valves in the same maner.

[Testament]

^ yea it still would have issues, probably more than a butterfly and would still be gay for outboards

The answer to this throttle question is using a continuously variable valve lift system. You can then have no throttle plate at all just a straight intake. There are several of these systems out there but none are cheap/simple/cost effective etc to be in mass production but it wont be far away. I think BMW has one, maybe Hyundai

probably not exactly what you were thinking of but still interesting, and I would think it's reasonably likely to go into production cars sometime soon. conceiveably could work kind like vtec in that you have a wild cam and then the electrohydraulics reduce valve openings to get effectively tame cam in low rpm/load situations and make nice emmissions etc. wonder if the induction noises will be fruity though.

[nick_m]

Apparently fiat puts alot of money into developing technology like that. I think they have alot of patents out on various drivetrain technologies so they an collect royalties etc.

I could be completely wrong though!

[DJZ]

Non cross flow but who cares this is before it was finished/tidied up. I don't think I've actually got a picture of it finished.

[westy]

[Spencer]

That log intake on that 6 posted above gives me the shits. Even though its boosted, air distribution is going to be poor and you could easy have cylinders running leaner than others.

Also filter socks and filters over ITB's in general are a easy way to loose power. Even open trumpets loose power over a well designed plenum

[Testament]

That log intake on that 6 posted above gives me the shits. Even though its boosted, air distribution is going to be poor and you could easy have cylinders running leaner than others.

Also filter socks and filters over ITB's in general are a easy way to loose power. Even open trumpets loose power over a well designed plenum

if the log was a bit bigger it would probably be o-k, looks a little on the small side really. but yeah ideally a taper manifold or a central inlet with a gentle expansion would best.

also on those socks - what is that? an M3 6cyl engine? I woudl say the socks will lose you heaps over whatever smartey germans put with the factory setup which makes pretty much 100HP/Litre doesn't it?

[Spencer]

even if that log was bigger I'd be worried, i'll try dig up some CFD analysis of various 6 cyl manifolds that enter from one end. Theres not many in that style even tapered that don't have messed up cylinder air distribution, even under pressure

[Vintage Grumble]

This thread needs more 4age,

^ Available room is also a contributing factor in most intake/plenum designs, its not worth convirting your car to LHD just to gain 3hp.

[Spencer]

So getting mildly off topic talking about turbo intake plenums on 6's but that one above disturbed me

This is basically how that log will be performing, increase in volume wont help. This is under 20Psi boost, cylinder one is pretty concerning

CFD of the HKS intake for the L series

And your typical after-market intake for a 6 cyl, still the HKS does a better job of air distribution, but has more pressure drop than other designs

Some of you will recognise those pics from the guy building a epic Audi group B style intake for his Z car.

[Vintage Grumble]

^ Thats interesting as shit.

[kyteler]

I would imagine the reasoning for the low pressure design of the HKS setup is due to it being bolted on to the front of triple carburettors, surely?