Bullitt Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 My understanding (which is probably wrong) there shoudlnt be any stress on it when the car is stationary. Under cornering both strut tops will go in the same direction...but then which strut has more force the inside or the outside...they cant be the same as then you wouldnt need a strut brace in the first place. So in summary I dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 ^ To add to the equation my car used to corner (when pushed hard and rightly or wrongly) on three wheels. I think that is now resolved but the stress on the outside front tyre is significantly more than the inside front tyre. To my small brain that would indicate that the strut brace should operate in traction The top of the strut on the outside wheel would be trying to pull away from the centre of the car? I'm getting pissed. Should STFU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pies Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 would it not dependo n the pivot point of the strut? ie: wheel above pivot point would result in top of strut being pushed towards center wheel below pivot point would result in top of strut being pushed out so depends where abouts said pivot point is in relation to the center of your wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pies Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 i guess in this case, pivot point would = where it joins to the lower arm. so for instance, on my mx31, the hub is attached above where the strut joins the lower arm, there for top of strut under hard cornering would be pished in towards the middle *edit* ball joint at bottom would be pivot point. this is same set up as my mx31... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 would it not dependo n the pivot point of the strut? ie: wheel above pivot point would result in top of strut being pushed towards center wheel below pivot point would result in top of strut being pushed out so depends where abouts said pivot point is in relation to the center of your wheel? I need to think about that more Darling but as an initial response (whilst pist and not finking straight) the froce (traction) is always on the 'bottom' of the wheel as that is where the tyre meets the friction surface. That probably means that the strut top (MacPherson strut in this case) will be forced towards the outside of the car on the side of the car with the most sideways loading on the tyre (the outside front tyre in my case)/Kisses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pies Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 yea, that does make more sense. i was only thinking as far as direct force applied to the hub. didnt take in to account that hub may have wheel attached and force (or froce as you put it ) would be applied to the bottom of the wheel stupid brain ignore what i said, im not thinking straight. cars = pushed aside in aid of concentrating on finding moneys. no more contract work ftl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 i guess in this case, pivot point would = where it joins to the lower arm. so for instance, on my mx31, the hub is attached above where the strut joins the lower arm, there for top of strut under hard cornering would be pished in towards the middle*edit* ball joint at bottom would be pivot point. this is same set up as my mx31... I think that the lower control arm is the fulcrum in this scenario. Words with that many vowels are choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pies Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 u used the word "direction" today simply because it sounded like erection see makes me giggle even now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8Pete Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 You'd die if you saw my coil bracket... It bolts to those four raised bits and weighs about 4 kg. To its credit, it can, however, also be used as an inlet manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 i . Holly shit!!I just noticed the lowering blocks. I am going to have to think about that for the Cortina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozin Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 They are roll centre adjusters, basically they maintain the bottom arm geometry as a supposed means of controlling bump steer. Now as I understand it, bump steer is caused by toe change as the wheel moves upwards under compression? So why not compensate by adjusting toe to what it should be anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I thought that in a race car you could run a little bit of bumpsteer? Helping with turn in? I cant remeber where I heard that so it is probly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 They are roll centre adjusters, basically they maintain the bottom arm geometry as a supposed means of controlling bump steer. Yuh - that is why I liked the look of them. The centre of gravity can be lowered keeping the steering geometry more or less factory.Some cars toe in on compression (bump) and some toe out. Your rear wheels will also change toe due to suspension deflection on hard corners. Toe settings are a bit of a personal preference on a race car - but as a broad rule I like zero toe. Others prefer a little toe out to enhance to turn in but on a front heavy car like a Cortina it tends to promote understeer in my limited experience. I guess it all depends how much caster you are running too. The way I steer into a corner will be slightly different than everyone else so what works best for me possibly will not be exactly perfect for others - but I am just an amature that TBH is only an average driver. Setting toe to compensate for bumpsteer is not something I know about but I would think it would have a negative effect somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 yeah it doesnt hurt to say that this is very coolUJ - the engine bay corner braces, is there anything on the other side of the firewall where they are welded on? some kind of plating or bracing perhaps? I'm tossing up between getting bars added to the rollcage in the 131 to tie in the front struts or to just do something like you have there. Do you know if theres any issues as far as MSNZ shit is concernded as far as putting chassis stiffening members like that if they are not part of the rollcage? I think maybe this got lost? could you comment please UJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Sorry brother - I remember reading it but forgot to answer. I do not have any additional plating on the cabin side of the firewall for the braces you mention. Those braces are really just a stronger copy of what the factory put into Mk1 Cortinas that came out of the UK or Australia (I have never been able to confirm which country but they have been present on at least one S/W I wrecked). My car has extra bracing underneath the front part of the braces you see (inside the wheel arch). It is roughly triangulated. Is a 131 MacPherson strut? The Cortina has had previous issues with stress cracks around the top strut mount - hence the extra effort it that region. Lots of guys bring the rollcage forward to the strut tops. Having seen how well these cars handle I think it is a good idea if you have a shell that is prone to torsional flexing. AFAIK it is perfectly MANZ`legal but check Schedule A on their website. I do think that MANZ outlawed a similar rollcage extention to the rear of the rear leafspring mount points (prolly not and issue in a 131 IIRC) for saftey reasons (rear end impact). Once upon a time I came close to buying a 131R Miafororia(sp??) but it was too fucked. great driver though as I recall - but that was in the 80s Your question was "can you put braces in like mine without stress from MANZ" and the answer is a firm yes. Also: Just because I did something doesn't mean it is good. If I had my time again I would change things. I better look at your project page as I really like 131s. A modern European performance Cortina in my eyes (I hope that does not sound rude - I lubs Cortinas). I think you should tie the front struts to the cage if you can. Project update: Tonight I re-did all the fuels system in the engine bay. That meant was a few hours last week were completely wasted but it is better now - and as luck would have it lighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Couldn't be bothered working on this for the last few months but I started again this week. Nothing exciting, just suspension development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyteler Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Win WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN I am a fan of you and this car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Ass Dragger Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Looking good, as the maniland cheese add says "Good things take time" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escorted Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Insanely cool! Im guessing it won't be racing this weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My name is Russell Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Racing this weekend .... yeah right!!!! You had me tricked for a split second then that you had your engine back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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