The Alternative Modern Motors thread

[Roman]

Hello, 

Maybe it's just my age, and to do with the cars that I learned about when I grew up. 
However I seem to be stuck in thinking of all of the motors from the 90s or early 200s as the "golden era"?
Where anything before that was a bit primitive, and anything much after that is too modernized and hard to do anything with.
So only things from around this time are good.

Legendary little rippers such as the 4AGE, 4G63, 2JZ, 1UZ, 13B, LS1... Gotta love em! 
Cheap, plentiful, great potential, great aftermarket support, and so on.
However a lot of these older motors are getting hard to source, expensive, and a bit less fun when it costs 10x what it used to.
However I feel like there are some good modern options which are slept on. 

So, what are some cool modern engines that should have some potential for swapping into shitty old cars?
@shrike noted a few cool options in a recent project thread.
I figure it's a worthy topic of it's own, going into some more detail on each type of motor.

I will write a few posts below that I've seen some success with, with some different engines and pros/cons.
In my mind what made those older engines great, was a combination of few factors
-Easy to make power in factory form.
-Good modding capability.
-Good aftermarket support.
-Plentiful engines / not too expensive.

Now to be fair I am Toyota biased, not because I think these motors are best, it's just what I know about from top of my head.
Feel free to spam other alternatives if you know of something cool! 


First up

Toyota 2ARFXE engine
This is a 2.5 litre 4 cylinder engine with a 90mm bore and 99mm stroke.
This is normally found in a hybrid car like a Camry.
There is a non hybrid version too (2ARFE)
Think of it as a slightly less good Toyota version of a K24 I guess.

Why consider it?
It uses all of the Toyota hybrid engine tricks, for good economy - that are good for power too when modified.
High compression ratio, huge ports, big standard cams, somewhat bolts to a 3SGE gearbox (Easier for FWD than RWD though)
There's currently one on Trademe for under $900.

How does it go? 

These motors have a really big factory intake cam, and this can fit on the exhaust side too. So you buy a 2nd one and fit it on the exhaust side for a cheap and easy upgrade.
Then retime the cams away from atkinson cycle, and you make big stacks of power with some basic bolt on mods. 

This guy was making 270whp with an NA motor with 2x factory intake cams fitted.  Pretty awesome! 
It somewhat bolts up to a 3SGE bellhousing pattern, which works well for transverse engine swaps.
Downsides are that it's a fairly tall engine, some people have had to cut their bonnet to fit in smaller RWD cars.
 

Okay so that's cool for a low budget throw together, but does the aftermarket support scale up?
How about a full $$$ turbo build? 
As this motor was common in america, there's heaps of stuff available.
Papadakis racing made a 1000hp variant.
 

 

 

[Roman]

Just worth mentioning that there is also a slightly older version of the same thing, called 2AZFE / 2AZFXE. 

Not quite as good but possibly cheaper and more available perhaps. 

This one is cool.

 

[mjrstar]

The golf R32 engine has intrigued me, I haven't done any real research, so it's probably a garbage idea for some reason, and is probably not ideal for high rpm, but from a capacity vs physical size, it could be alright...

 

 

it seems like a likely candidate for a +t conversion, just check out the head gasket surface area between the bores,  and the number of head studs.. (2 things not easily changed on an engine)

[Roman]

2ZRFE / 2ZRFXE 

This is a similar era engine to the above, but a smaller 1.8 litre 4 cyl motor. 
When the 2ZZGE stopped production, Lotus used a supercharged 2ZR engine instead in the Lotus Elise.
So there's some alright aftermarket goodies.
This was also the 1.8 litre engine used in the 1.8 litre prius, hybrid and non hybrid versions in corollas. So they're fairly common.
There's a prius version on trademe for $700. 

Perhaps most notably though, this engine was used in "Yaris Hilton" by Mighty Car mods as their cheap and cheerful turbo car.
They eventually blew the motor up, it was shitloads of fun and zero fucks were given. 

It's pretty awesome that this engine spans all the way from being in a $$$ Lotus, to the basis for an absolute shitbox car minimum spend build for max lolz.
 

 

[Roman]

1NZFXE 

I think we've covered this one well enough - but definitely earns a mention. 
It's a pity that available aftermarket cams max out at 264 deg / 9.5mm lift. As I think this motor would give a lot of older 1600cc motors a run for it's money if bigger cams were available.

Wins the prestigious Goez hard 4 wat it iz award.
 

 

[kws]

Having had the 2ZRFE (factory) in a Yaris RS, its a very uninspiring motor stock. It had a thick wad of torque in the mid range, but other than that it didn't like to rev and felt kind of flat. No doubt boost will fix it.

It's getting on a bit now but i think the Mazda L series (2.0L LF-VE and the bigger 2.3L L3-VE) would be a good engine to swap into something RWD. Already comes RWD configured in the NC MX5 (2L) but the 2.3 can be converted to RWD too. I liked my NC a lot, and the engine and gearbox in it were great. Turbo kits are available, albeit expensive.

[Roman]

2GRFE / 2GRFXE 

This is a 3.5 litre V6 that I guess replaces the 2JZGE engine. 
Has good aftermarket support, aftermarket cams etc but the engines cost a lot. 
Popular for engine swaps into MR2s and similar, because the east-west variants have a bellhousing pattern very close to a 3SGE. So they bolt up to a factory gearbox.
Unfortunately ends up being pretty expensive all up, though.
This guy made 405whp with an NA setup, using high comp factory pistons, aftermarket cams and valvesprings. and some bolt on mods. Pretty sweet to be banging past 100hp/litre at the wheels with a fairly big engine.
 

 

[Roman]

14 minutes ago, kws said:

Having had the 2ZRFE (factory) in a Yaris RS, its a very uninspiring motor stock. It had a thick wad of torque in the mid range, but other than that it didn't like to rev and felt kind of flat. No doubt boost will fix it.

When I took my 1NZ with cams etc for a WOF with the standard intake manifold on.
You could not have believed it was the same engine. Holy crap, it turned into a slug haha. 
Totally choked out by ~5000ish rpm. 
If the 2ZR was similarly designed, it would be a night and day difference with some bolt on mods. 
However yes - I must concede that some motors like 1NZ and 2ZR do in fact totally suck in factory form.
 

[Alfashark]

39 minutes ago, mjrstar said:

The golf R32 engine has intrigued me, I haven't done any real research, so it's probably a garbage idea for some reason, and is probably not ideal for high rpm, but from a capacity vs physical size, it could be alright...

 

 

it seems like a likely candidate for a +t conversion, just check out the head gasket surface area between the bores,  and the number of head studs.. (2 things not easily changed on an engine)

VR6+T is a very common mod, and there's shitloads of material online about it, plus a wad of aftermarket bits. 

The engine itself has been around forever in various configurations - 2.8 12V, 2.8/3.2/3.6 24V. Yes, they're heavy but as mentioned, they've got a lot of meat in the block.  15° angle between bore center-lines, so they run a conventional inline-6 crank and firing order... Add to that the asymmetric port length between cylinders (inlets are on one side of the head, exhausts on the other) and they sound absolutely awesome.

1000hp+ is achievable - Just spend 30 seconds on YouTube looking for VR6 Turbo Mk1 and Mk2 Golf conversions...

[xsspeed]

someone should buy my r36 and find out

To pollute this thread with nissan, it seems in this note that nismo has gone halfway to a roman 1NZ build on the HR16, trying to resist opening a can of worms i dont have time for. I lold that you ignored rfbs in you first post, twenny debt has to be little ripper certified by lil johnny

 

[shrike]

My Ae111 AWD Build that should have been finished long ago (blame moving to OZ and a no rush attitude) is now looking like itll get a K24 (turboed) for moderate power with options to turn the wick up later rather then going down the 9a route (stroked 7a/20v head etc) as the money I save on the motor can go to other things

I did look at the 2AR as would have liked to go Toyota but the K24 is just a better engine, and tbh I may end up not having any markings on the valve cover so who would know as @Roman said 3S bellhousings for transverse engine are an option (shame ive swapped my GT4 Celica box to an A series housing :S) so would need an adapter plate either way

As realistically im building the Ae111 for part availability and the K24 support is just nuts

Adapter plates and custom flywheels are pretty easy to get these days, I had a look at Tilton twin plates for the E series wide gear AWD box with A series housing on it and I can get a K24 flywheel with all the 7.25" plates etc off the shelf (just need to work out input shaft engagement, and id ideally like to have the starter motor on the gearbox side rather then the engine side but thats not a big deal. I suspect once I get measurements there may already be a K24 Flywheel in a kit that will work or I can shave some bellhousing etc etc

Once aftermarket ECUS with Direct injection come down in price/people work out how to use the factory ecu without other systems etc I'd really like to see some direct injection engines used, ideally with port injection for additional fuel delivery 

The below came out roughly 2017 so in 3 years they will be 10 year old cars and there is buckets of the cars they came in on the roads even ex rentals/fleet cars etc

Toyota M20A-FKS  13:1

205hp to the crank 152kw after a tune etc and id say probably still decent fuel ecom factory they are meant to be around 140-150kw but do 4ish L per 100km

Toyota M20A-FXS is the 14:1 option in the hybrid version

Larger option is the

A25A-FKS 13:1

A25A-FXS 14:1

The Subaru FA24 is also something that would be good for modernizing some of the older subarus for a restomod sort of setup

Big thing with newer options is better tech and parts options

Obviously the GR variants of Hot hatch have the 3cylinder G16E

[Doug Hill]

8 hours ago, Alfashark said:

VR6+T is a very common mod, and there's shitloads of material online about it, plus a wad of aftermarket bits. 

The engine itself has been around forever in various configurations - 2.8 12V, 2.8/3.2/3.6 24V. Yes, they're heavy but as mentioned, they've got a lot of meat in the block.  15° angle between bore center-lines, so they run a conventional inline-6 crank and firing order... Add to that the asymmetric port length between cylinders (inlets are on one side of the head, exhausts on the other) and they sound absolutely awesome.

1000hp+ is achievable - Just spend 30 seconds on YouTube looking for VR6 Turbo Mk1 and Mk2 Golf conversions...

We had a mk2 3.2 TT with a little exhaust and I always thought it sounded like a masturbating Wookie. Really lovely motor otherwise

[Alfashark]

15 minutes ago, Doug Hill said:

We had a mk2 3.2 TT with a little exhaust and I always thought it sounded like a masturbating Wookie. Really lovely motor otherwise

Haha! There's an offshoot of the DUBNZVW/VASK group exclusively for VR6 models, known as Wookies in the wild...

[tortron]

Wookies in the woods is the vr6 nats in the states

 

[cletus]

What's a good running K24 worth? I had a look on trademe but there's none on there at the moment 

 

I'll likely have access to one soon, and it's in a handy take home package

[mjrstar]

^^about a grand give or take, there is a pretty consistent supply on face crack but I guess supply will dry up one day..

[shrike]

27 minutes ago, cletus said:

What's a good running K24 worth? I had a look on trademe but there's none on there at the moment 

 

I'll likely have access to one soon, and it's in a handy take home package

Wreckers quoted me 1500, there is heaps on FB marketplace for 1k 

That's for the K24A3, obviously if I go to pickapart and roll the dice it's cheaper (but I'd need to be in NZ for that) 

Happy to have a chat if you have one come up im also open to a whole car depending on pricing 

[GARDRB]

10 hours ago, shrike said:

My Ae111 AWD Build that should have been finished long ago (blame moving to OZ and a no rush attitude) is now looking like itll get a K24 (turboed) for moderate power with options to turn the wick up later rather then going down the 9a route (stroked 7a/20v head etc) as the money I save on the motor can go to other things

I did look at the 2AR as would have liked to go Toyota but the K24 is just a better engine, and tbh I may end up not having any markings on the valve cover so who would know as @Roman said 3S bellhousings for transverse engine are an option (shame ive swapped my GT4 Celica box to an A series housing :S) so would need an adapter plate either way

As realistically im building the Ae111 for part availability and the K24 support is just nuts

Adapter plates and custom flywheels are pretty easy to get these days, I had a look at Tilton twin plates for the E series wide gear AWD box with A series housing on it and I can get a K24 flywheel with all the 7.25" plates etc off the shelf (just need to work out input shaft engagement, and id ideally like to have the starter motor on the gearbox side rather then the engine side but thats not a big deal. I suspect once I get measurements there may already be a K24 Flywheel in a kit that will work or I can shave some bellhousing etc etc

I don't want to rain on your parade if you were considering using the E-series toyota box with the K24, but I talked to the K24 to E-series adapter guy that does all the MR2 kits when I was considering doing a k24 into an ae104 wagon and he said he's looked into it and the K24 block will not play nicely with the Toyota transfer case. He recommended going to CRV gear.

[GARDRB]

13 hours ago, Roman said:

2ZRFE / 2ZRFXE 

This is a similar era engine to the above, but a smaller 1.8 litre 4 cyl motor. 
When the 2ZZGE stopped production, Lotus used a supercharged 2ZR engine instead in the Lotus Elise.
So there's some alright aftermarket goodies.
This was also the 1.8 litre engine used in the 1.8 litre prius, hybrid and non hybrid versions in corollas. So they're fairly common.
There's a prius version on trademe for $700. 

Perhaps most notably though, this engine was used in "Yaris Hilton" by Mighty Car mods as their cheap and cheerful turbo car.
They eventually blew the motor up, it was shitloads of fun and zero fucks were given. 

It's pretty awesome that this engine spans all the way from being in a $$$ Lotus, to the basis for an absolute shitbox car minimum spend build for max lolz.
 

The 2zr also benefits from sharing an exhaust manifold pattern with the outgoing 1ZZ and a bell housing pattern with the 1NZ. 

[shrike]

26 minutes ago, GARDRB said:

I don't want to rain on your parade if you were considering using the E-series toyota box with the K24, but I talked to the K24 to E-series adapter guy that does all the MR2 kits when I was considering doing a k24 into an ae104 wagon and he said he's looked into it and the K24 block will not play nicely with the Toyota transfer case. He recommended going to CRV gear.

Dam, will investigate either way, my E box has an aftermarket front LSD etc and works with my drive flanges and rear diff

CRV gear isn't full time AWD and has other issues that im hoping to avoid

Thanks for the heads up