Popular Post Roman Posted January 28, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2022 I dont think it would be that much. Maybe 5-10 perhaps. But anything extra would be welcome - I was blown away to gain ~6hp from just fuel changes. Incredible! In other news, tonight I have yet again been on the receiving end of some incredible generosity for this project. In exchange for some ongoing engine tuning assistance, I have been given a set of Ohlin coilovers for the Echo. This is better suspension than my Carina has ever had! It's been incredible to be on the receiving end of so many people pitching in to help on this project, in so many different ways. It would have cost heaps to get to this point without HEAPS of people's help along the way. Some of whom have been almost complete strangers who just want to see an Echo living its best life. I'm immensely immensely grateful. I cant wait to see how it drives with these fitted. 27 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 I now see so many blue echos and vits pesting around Auckland. I think @yoeddynz might have backed the wrong horse 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoeddynz Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 @xsspeed You know that K11s are where its at. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Roman Posted January 29, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 29, 2022 Vitz etc is for the common peasants, K11 is for the more refined gentleman I put the coilovers in, I was thinking the fronts would end up heavier than previous. Surprisingly overall, now the suspension is lighter. I put the spring rubbers in top and bottom on the rear springs, but the top ones dont fit right as the spring finishes differently. So it's raising the rear height by probably 15mm or so more than it should. Will pull them back out tomorrow and figure out something else. Net result is a 5kg loss, happy with that! Surely must be creeping towards the sub 800kg mark. The rear shocks were the only thing heavier than they started, but since they're adjustable I'll forgive them. The front and rear shocks both have adjusters on them for stiffness, however I'm not yet sure which way to turn them to make stiffer or softer. The rears adjust from the top, and the fronts from the bottom. So do I adjust the front ones clockwise from underneath, then rears clockwise from on top? Or all clockwise looking down from the top? etc? Will figure it out, haha. First impressions driving it is that the front spring rate feels a fair bit softer than the bilstein springs I had in there previously. However now I've got the option to easily swap! Also interesting to note that the new struts tops have some extra castor built in, by pushing the top of the strut further back. (in a fixed position) The steering feels lighter than it did before, not quite sure why yet. Maybe from the extra castor? Although I'm sure I remember hearing that this makes steering heavier not lighter. I'll need to check if the coilover platform/spring/thread protrudes into the area the hoosiers want to occupy. If so I'll need to swap these struts back out for drags. But its a half hour job, not a big deal. Having stiffer rear springs and being able to set the rear shocks stiff will still be a good help. These will pay dividends when it's time to head to a trackday, hopefully some time sooner than later. 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Usually clockwise =adjusts firmer, same for inverted shocks, clockwise but from underneath instead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Righty tighty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajg193 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 How is it on fuel these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kws Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 5 hours ago, ajg193 said: How is it on fuel these days? All the smiles per mile 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 This last tank was 35 litres and about 450km So under 8 litres per 100km with some hooning thrown in. I still havent retuned it properly since the wideband situation has improved. I'm going to try head back to the dyno and see if I can spend some time on part throttle stuff, to get economy areas tuned nicely. I want to see if I can connect my ECU to the dyno with canbus, so I can import power/torque into the logs. Then I can generate BSFC numbers in real time. Which is what you really need to see in order to optimize economy areas. Also, yeah I had all of my suspension wound to the softest settings haha. With everything cranked the other way, it feels too stiff and every single bump on the road comes into the car. So it's nice to know that I've got a good usable range to work with. However even on stiffest, now the car rolls funny in the front when the car turns. It's always previously been quite flat in cornering. Not sure if it's because it's a little lower and I've crossed some threshold where now the front roll center has moved significantly. Or just because these springs are softer than my other ones. (more likely) So I'll start with the easiest option first, and preload the springs a bit and raise the front height some more. Otherwise I've got a few other coilover springs to try here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 With the intake and exhaust changes, my 20v junk seems to use less fuel. so good excuse to do that exhaust. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deankdx Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Roman said: now the car rolls funny in the front when the car turns. It's always previously been quite flat in cornering. Not sure if it's because it's a little lower and I've crossed some threshold where now the front roll center has moved significantly. wonder if it's bump steer due to being lowered, has it been aligned since fitting at this height? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 In my 8+ years of ownership this car has had one wheel alignment ever Nah it's not bump steering, well, any more than it used to anyway (semi slicks seem to accentuate it) But yeah, I guess if it's changed the castor angle via the top hats it'll probably be a good idea to get another alignment. The only other time was when I swapped in the manual rack. I dont think there's anything that can be adjusted apart from front toe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Did it have lowered springs in factory shocks before? If so maybe it didn't have much travel before bump stop contact, that is very common for factory suspension with lowered springs especially in the front maybe now it has more travel and it can roll now? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Might be worthwhile measuring how much travel the shocks have and set up your heights/bump and droop travel accordingly 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Also if you are going to swap springs it might be worthwhile putting new boots on the front shocks Inverted shocks are prone to wearing the top bush and getting crap in there, this can lead to the shafts getting worn and the chrome comes off , then the shaft can't slide smoothly and the shocks 'stick' I had a customer that had ohlins shocks that had play, he tried to get them rebuilt but the Japanese ones have a weird bush size that you can't get so he ended up replacing them 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 The top linear bushings are available in a few sizes.. Places like saeco list them under prefix code LLB. I had a mission finding replacement ones for my aragosta inverted shocks, but yeah definitely like @cletus with his suggestion to try and keep grit and grime out of that area. You maybe working the suspension harder if you have more grip rather than the tyre giving way first? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 The Bilstein springs have heaaappss of non active coils to soak up the fact that it was lower (not by much) But I think what was happening is that the car didnt quite compress the non active coils at ride height. So when you turn it would just tip slightly, then instantly get a real big spring rate increase. So it stayed nice and flat. But in this case it's a linear rate spring. I found someone else who runs these, and they said the spring rates are something like 3.5kg front and 3kg rear. So not hugely stiff. He recommended trying preloading them more first, which makes sense / easiest first option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Preload won't change the rate on a linear spring, it'll will change ride height. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Another tip if you are increasing preload on a soft spring- beware of the coils being able to bind. If it's already done it there will be witness marks on the coils Make sure it has less bump stop clearance (including some compression of the bumpstop) than it has coil clearance (ie the combined gaps between the spring coils) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Yeah so there's evidence of the coils binding up. So will definitely put some stiffer springs in there. Thanks for the tip @cletus In other news, I've been wondering if it's actually worth revving to 9k at the drags, or for next time if it's more worthwhile shifting at a lower rpm. So using dyno results, gearbox ratios and final drive ratio. Put together tractive effort graph. (followed this as a guide https://www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/understanding-torque-and-horsepower-with-tractive-force/ ) So if the lines cross over from one gear to the next, it means the motor is revving higher than what is useful. (excuse my lack of meaningful axes labels and values, CBF) I'm only using 3 gears at the drags, so it looks like it's possibly worth short shifting from 2nd to 3rd, but, there's not much in it. Not like it's wanting to change gear a whole 1000rpm earlier or anything. The blue line of first gear being nowhere near 2nd means that it would still be worth revving it even higher. In order for the blue line to cross the red one, I need to keep revving until the power drops to around 105-110hp 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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