Goat Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I cost me bout 500 bux labor to get the color & clears put on and buffed etc. Not including paint. It was a metallic so i didnt want to do it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark105 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 no i cant do it my self, ive never resprayed anythin in my life. so im lookin at bout $1000 for top coats inc labour. sweet i can do the primer/filling and so on my self its just the final color and labour id be paying for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostmotorsport Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 hi all, long time listener, 1st time caller. I feel the need to make a few comments on various posts I've read in this thread. I've been painting casually and semi-professionally for a few years now - though I consider myself to be an unskilled noob compared to guys that do it for a living, but here goes. Golden Rule #1 The key to a good paint job? Prep. prep, prep and more prep. Spraying is probably 2% of a good paint job. The more $ and time you invest in materials and care during the prep work, the better your finish will be and the less post-paint buffing etc you will have to do. as an example, I spent a month working (at nights) on some repairs on a Subbie wagon for a friend and really went the extra mile during prep till I was genuinely happy with the car sitting there with it's primer on. Using 1K Dulon, I just sprayed it on and let it dry - no need to buff, polish, sand, anything - factory finish off the gun. (Not to say this happens every time of course!!) Equipment: The more $$ you spend on gear (including safety) the better - it's just that a lot of people can't justify $1000 for a gun for a single paint job - fair enough! I do most of my work with a Welmade gravity gun. They're cheap and a direct rip-off of the DeVilbiss kit (which IMO are the best) However, I will soon be buying a DVB gun and the quality of my work will reflect that investment (I hope!) Also, you need a good compressor (12CFM or more), good lines, water traps, clean air filter, good mask (and suit if using 2K), clean workshop, quality body filler(nutech is just re-hydrated donkey shit imo), quality solvents (not supercheap!) quality primer (not resene) and quality paint (not either of those 2) - oh, and don't buy cheap sandpaper either - you end up paying half as much, but using 3 times as much cos it's shit! But don't take my word for it. if you want a crappy job, go ahead and cut costs! Comment 1: someone mentioned hosing your garage floor prior to painting to stop dust etc. Why is there dust in your "paint booth" ????????? Seriously, see the golden rule #1 - cleaning out your shed/garage/booth/kitchen - whereever - is paramount to not having a final coat full of crap! The main reason tho is the water itself. If your garage floor is covered in moisture, lots of it evaporates into the air, is trapped by the solvents coming out of your high-quality spray gun, and deposited onto your nicely prepped car body - resulting in poor finish - and in the worst case, a cloudy/milky appearance! Oh man, that sucks! p.s. to remove said milky appearance, empty your paint into a spare clean container, then throw in some two-way thinners and lightly spray it over the affected area - the thinners will soften the paint and help release the moisture. But I'm sure you guys will never need to do that, aye! Which brings me to.... Golden Rule #2: Cleanliness is far above godliness. Your work can never be too clean. Prepsol/preparakote/whatever brand/type, once the primer is wet sanded and dried, wipe off the excess with a clean towel and then prepsol that body until the rag comes away clean. While it's drying, you can fire up your compressor, mix up your paint, get your safety gear on and be ready to paint. DO NOT touch the bodywork once it's been cleaned - nothing like oil from your fingers/arm/other bodypart to cause fish-eyes/wrinkles etc. This same rule also applies to everything - your "booth" - your guns (which you clean before and after every use, of course!!!) air lines, mask filters etc etc etc. I hope you get the picture. Technique: This varies between finishes/brands/equipment - you just need to practise and figure out what works best for what you have - I find when mixing color - start with 33% thinners in a small mixing pot and do some test runs and keep thinning/thickening till you work out the required ratio - then you can use a $3 plastic measuring jug from the supermarket to accurately reproduce that ratio everytime you mix a new batch. However, be advised, if the weather/temperature changes, your ratios may need to as well. Also, 1K clear needs to be thinned approx 50/50 otherwise it comes out like spider webs or goes on too dry. 2K you can just about do what you want, but if you go too thin, you get the dreaded curtains When spraying,you need to find the right distance from the work to hold your gun - then practice maintaining that distance and a constant speed across the work - also feather the trigger at the beginning and end of each stroke with approx. 50% overlap etc etc - I know, this is real basic stuff but you'd be surprised at how many ppl don't know the basics! One other trick I learned - once I start painting, the air is always going and then I just need to squeeze the trigger a little bit to get the paint flowing (I'm talking about the fact that the 1st few mm of trigger only flow the air - then it increasingly brings the fluid into the airstream) - this means that you have more accurate control over how much material is being deposited on the work - otherwise sometimes you squeeze the trigger a bit much and *surprise* !! too much=runs. This technique also helps you achieve consistent coats. While we're on the subject, thin coats > heavy coats. with 1K Dulon, I used to lay down 2 light "dust" coats to get a tacky surface then 2 heavy coats for gloss - but with more modern paints, lighter coats seem better and give a more consistent finish without "shadows" - also, it helps reduce the risk of runs in the finish. This is especially true of metallics, where if you try to paint a few heavy coats, it'll be horrid and all over the place like a mad woman's shit..... Buffing: I think this has been covered well here, but I'd just like to enforce the fact that - if you need to buff the finish - start with a 3M medium cut compund on a lambs-wool pad on a rotary buffer - there should be no need for sanding as you followed all the rules and got a beautiful finish off the gun, right?? This will make the paint go dull - don't PANIC! Then move to a fine compund (mothers scratch remover for instance) on an orbital buffer, then a pre-wax cleaner type product by hand, then several coats of pure carnuba wax. Oh, and don't forget to leave the paint for at LEAST 7-10 days to gas off, otherwise you'll root it! (tho I cut back a 2K finish the other week the day after I painted it - but it wasn't my car, so.....) Well, I could go on for quite a bit, but I'm sure no one is still reading as they are all asleep at the keyboard by now. Hope this helps at least someone! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidian Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 choice advice. sticky it IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenger79 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Good effort,however a little basic.It's awesome to have people come forth with real-world experiences,rather then just reading it somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thminiman Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 yuh, you = a pro but too lazy to do that/\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avenger79 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Generally don't have the effort to talk shop after hours. The bulk amount of PM's keep me busy anyway,cheers guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cute wee gem Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Comment 1: someone mentioned hosing your garage floor prior to painting to stop dust etc. Why is there dust in your "paint booth" ????????? Seriously, see the golden rule #1 - cleaning out your shed/garage/booth/kitchen - whereever - is paramount to not having a final coat full of crap!/quote] Please, clean my garage! Nah, good write up though, I'm just a bit lazy, but I didn't do it with water in the end thanks to avenger I think. Practice is what is needed for a decent paint job too, you learn as you go, you can read all this stuff and go do your first job and it still won't be very good IMO After about 5 decent jobs you'd be pretty sussed, unless you get lazy like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostmotorsport Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 there is no substitute for experience - I just felt compelled to respond to a few comments I'd read in the thread. Yes it is quite basic - but technique is a hard thing to put into words! I personally learn better by doing something rather than reading about it - but like I said, if it helps just one person.... and besides, I wrote it at work so I got paid to do it! Can't be all bad then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 What would i have done wrong if after year, my paint is now bubbling like rain drops in some areas? it just white dulon, didnt put any clear on etc. I think it has to do with that i painted it outside on the lawn just before the sun went down/ dew came out. damnit! time for new paint anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk5corty Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Moisture or solvent bubbles. Caused by many things, improper following of flash times, to wet a coat ( paint will run before this stage unless you are painting horizontally.) Extreme humidity, not wax and grease removing before sanding, not using a water trap in your lines etc. You will find as i did this is a reacurring problem in affected areas, i had to remove to OEM primer or baremetal before i cured it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk5corty Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Not meaning to say your wrong or anything, just dicussing a few points i dont entirely agree with or feel i have a way that would better suit some, feel free to argue/bash/contradict me. 1. p.s. to remove said milky appearance, empty your paint into a spare clean container, then throw in some two-way thinners and lightly spray it over the affected area - the thinners will soften the paint and help release the moisture. But I'm sure you guys will never need to do that, aye! 2. start with 33% thinners in a small mixing pot and do some test runs and keep thinning/thickening till you work out the required ratio. However, be advised, if the weather/temperature changes, your ratios may need to as well. 3. One other trick I learned - once I start painting, the air is always going and then I just need to squeeze the trigger a little bit to get the paint flowing (I'm talking about the fact that the 1st few mm of trigger only flow the air - then it increasingly brings the fluid into the airstream) - this means that you have more accurate control over how much material is being deposited on the work - otherwise sometimes you squeeze the trigger a bit much and *surprise* !! too much=runs. This technique also helps you achieve consistent coats. 4. with more modern paints, lighter coats seem better and give a more consistent finish without "shadows" - also, it helps reduce the risk of runs in the finish. This is especially true of metallics, where if you try to paint a few heavy coats, it'll be horrid and all over the place like a mad woman's shit..... Buffing: 5. I think this has been covered well here, but I'd just like to enforce the fact that - if you need to buff the finish - start with a 3M medium cut compund on a lambs-wool pad on a rotary buffer - there should be no need for sanding as you followed all the rules and got a beautiful finish off the gun, right?? 6. This will make the paint go dull - don't PANIC! Then move to a fine compund (mothers scratch remover for instance) on an orbital buffer, then a pre-wax cleaner type product by hand, then several coats of pure carnuba wax. 7. Oh, and don't forget to leave the paint for at LEAST 7-10 days to gas off, otherwise you'll root it! 1. I would argue the best way to counteract the milky appearance if you manage to trap humidity in you paint film would be to sand with 600 once dry and leave in the sun for a day or two and recoat. The use of thinners can increase the milky appearance by killing gloss, as i found out when trying to use the raw thinners trick to flatten orangepeel in a section of my clear. 2. As for paints which require thinners i havent encountered any that flowed better at less than 1/1 (except primers) and usually in between 1:1 and 1:1.5 was optimal, the paint tin will give the best instructions. 3. Im not sure if im understanding you correctly but i either have a panel or a sheet of paper and i adjust my paint flow and fan on this before spraying any panels thus ensuring gun settings are correct. 4. When spraying 2k i spray the first coat as wet as the last and spray them all at full wetness, i do sometimes get a run yes but if im not laying the coats heavy then without reducing them with slow reducers they dont flow out correctly for me, this way i avoid compounding. I havent had a problem with metallics, aslong as i dust coat the last coat or two to even the metallic appearance up, also i adjust my technique by spraying further away from the panel and moving slower-i find this keeps the metallic particles higher to the top of the paint film. 5. I always sand if i am going to buff, if the paint is that smooth that i dont bother sanding then i dont buff, thats a personal choice however, i dont see an improvement in gloss. 6 and 7. The reason you can ruin the paintjob withing 7 days is the sealing of the paint with the wax, dont use the wax, you can compound in a few days, even the day after although i have heard of paints need to be re compounded due to shrinking back into scratches after it was buffed, the cause of this however was the use of 320 and not 600 grit between primer and colour stages. Heres how personally buff Sand with 2000 (start at 1200 if there is orange peel) then medium cut on a wool pad, followed by fine cut on a foam pad then swirl mark remover or other very fine abrasive on a finishing foam pad. Then hand glaze instead of wax- it doesnt seal the paint. You can get away without the finishing pad and swirl mark remover on all expect dark finishes. once again feel free to pick apart my suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostmotorsport Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 a lot of it is personal experience and preference - I do what works 4 me I guess! Regarding the gun air vs paint thing - I to set up the air/fan etc on a bit of scrap prior to painting - I was trying to explain that if on your pass across the panel you just pull the trigger from 'off' it can be harder to get a nice progression and adjust the amount of material - so what I do is hold the trigger down slightly so air is coming out and you can feel the pressure just before the gun starts flowing paint - so that you just squeeze a fraction more for the material.... I'm not explaining it well Liken it to a rifle or pistol, where you take up the first pressure on the trigger when you're ready to fire, so that to fire the gun it's a gentle squeeze rather than a jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk5corty Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Ok i understand that bit now, i do the same, pull the air on about 30cm before the panel so my arm is at the correct speed when i pull the trigger a few cm before the panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escort mk1 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Hey guys, just preping my escort now but want to make sure my primer doesnt react with the final paint. Im painting it the new ford blue 'bionic' The primer im using is FORTEC 432 Acrylic primer surfacer. Will this cause problems later when i paint it, or will it be sweet? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cute wee gem Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I've mixed heaps of paints and never had a problem, should be ok though.. if you got it from the same place then ask them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 just out of interest can u paint 2k primer over 1k primer without it reacting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Whats the best way to go about painting a car with metalic paint. Is it best to just spray the base down and let it dry etc then do the clear, or do it straight after etc? any help appreciated. mk5corty, tell me how youd do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cute wee gem Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 You should be able to spray 2k primer over 1k, dylan. I've done it heaps Doesn't matter when you do the clear, corrupt - just let it flash off as usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Dredged this thread out from the 4th page. I really want to get to the oldschool nats and am worried that if i get get my car painted i will run out of time. The question im asking is: If i leave the car primed and guidecoated, will it be able to be out in the weather without undoing all my prep work or should i spray over the primer with matt black or something to "seal" it? Is primer porus? will it let water through or will it be ok? I do plan to put a color on it, but with only a month left i dont think i could get it done in time as i dont have the 133t skillz to do a metallic top coat and would have to take it to a panel beaters. Chur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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