For Questions Regarding WOFs/CERTs/NUMBER PLATEs

[hobdar]

HI

 

Can anyone explain the Grandfathering system that the LVVTA use and how it applies?

Thanks

[KKtrips]

1 hour ago, hobdar said:

Can anyone explain the Grandfathering system that the LVVTA use and how it applies?

If a modification can adequately be proven to have been modified prior to the date of a standard being introduced then the earlier standard can be used. Not every everything has grandfathering rights though.

What in particular are you asking about?

[KKtrips]

FYI - everyone the Car Construction Manual is now available for free.

As of 1st February (today), electronic copies of the Car Construction Manual are free to all. Get your copy here - https://www.lvvta.org.nz/.../new-zealand-car.../

Don't forget that there are also standards (which have always been free) - https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents.html#standards

Plus heaps of free infosheets - https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents.html#infosheets

The threshold which lists all modifications on your vehicle that DON'T require certification - https://www.lvvta.org.nz/.../LVVTA_LVV_Cert_Threshold.pdf

For all those Frequently Asked Questions...

FAQ 1 - Does my vehicle require certification? https://www.facebook.com/groups/168014270465260/permalink/632703203996362/

FAQ 2 - What should I do before going to a certifier? https://www.facebook.com/groups/168014270465260/permalink/632703977329618/

FAQ 3 - Where can I find a certifier? https://www.facebook.com/groups/168014270465260/permalink/632706003996082/

FAQ 4 - How much does it cost to certify my vehicle? https://www.facebook.com/groups/168014270465260/permalink/632706903995992/

FAQ 5 - How long does it take to get a vehicle certified? https://www.facebook.com/groups/168014270465260/permalink/632708517329164/

FAQ 6 - What are the rules in regards to my modification...? https://www.facebook.com/groups/168014270465260/permalink/647669915833024/

[kyteler]

Thanks, Christopher. 

That's good news. 

Work printer may get a workout... 

[AllTorque]

@KKtrips can you pin that stuff in tech articles?

[KKtrips]

2 minutes ago, kyteler said:

Thanks, Christopher. 

That's good news. 

Work printer may get a workout... 

Download it to your phone dingus, so you can search it.

[kyteler]

Just now, KKtrips said:

Download it to your phone dingus, so you can search it.

How dare you talk about my phone dingus! 

[Yowzer]

[KKtrips]

11 minutes ago, kyteler said:

How dare you talk about my phone dingus! 

No that's your phone doofus

[KKtrips]

1 hour ago, AllTorque said:

@KKtrips can you pin that stuff in tech articles?

Done

 

[zep]

On 29/01/2021 at 14:24, cletus said:

Looks like a good design. Who makes them? 

If it's a "recognized manufacturer " then there is less involved than if it's someone doing one offs

Worst case scenario it might need NDT and making sure the tube sizes meet our requirements 

Hey @cletus

The place that makes them is called FabHouse: https://www.facebook.com/FabHouse05

Here are a few more pics and some info the owner gave me:

"They are made from 3mm CDs tube all tig welded uppers are factory length with adjustment rubber bushes heims joints and fit the slotted ball joints for extra adjustment"

 

[hobdar]

On 01/02/2021 at 19:22, KKtrips said:

If a modification can adequately be proven to have been modified prior to the date of a standard being introduced then the earlier standard can be used. Not every everything has grandfathering rights though.

What in particular are you asking about?

I have a 1962 Volkswagen Beetle - which was made into a convertible, in 1997 it appears to have been re-vinned with new plates and is now currently registered as a VW Beetle Convertible . I am unsure if it was registered as a Convertible prior to this date.

As far as i know everything currently on it - Seatbelt Frame/Roll Cage, Chassis Strengthen, Bigger Tyres and Wheel Spacers have been on it since it was built. LVVTA has no declaration or modification documentation for it, and NZTA tell me it has no record of modification since it was registered as a converitble. Now occasionally when i take it some where for a WOF i get questioned as to where the cert is, and the last guy insisted i get it completely certified. 

 

I intend to increase the engine size, change the seats and add front disk brakes, which i know i need to get certified, but i want to avoid having to redo the major components like the chassis or the roll bar/seatbelt frame, just cause it was done prior to 1997 or earlier. 

[KKtrips]

22 minutes ago, hobdar said:

I have a 1962 Volkswagen Beetle - which was made into a convertible, in 1997 it appears to have been re-vinned with new plates and is now currently registered as a VW Beetle Convertible . I am unsure if it was registered as a Convertible prior to this date.

As far as i know everything currently on it - Seatbelt Frame/Roll Cage, Chassis Strengthen, Bigger Tyres and Wheel Spacers have been on it since it was built. LVVTA has no declaration or modification documentation for it, and NZTA tell me it has no record of modification since it was registered as a converitble. Now occasionally when i take it some where for a WOF i get questioned as to where the cert is, and the last guy insisted i get it completely certified. 

 

I intend to increase the engine size, change the seats and add front disk brakes, which i know i need to get certified, but i want to avoid having to redo the major components like the chassis or the roll bar/seatbelt frame, just cause it was done prior to 1997 or earlier. 

As it has not been continuously registered since LVV certification coming into force (1992), then it requires a cert for the change to convertible and it should have had one in 1997.

If you are trying to avoid current requirements, you would need to provide evidence to back up a completion date, something like photos that can be dated, invoices for work related to the modification, insurance documents, a magazine article that confirms the modification and it's identity. However, documents such as statements from previous owners are not acceptable.

I'm not sure the requirements now would be massively different to 1997 so the prudent approach in this case would be for a certifier to assess the vehicle to current requirements and anything that does not meet now that could have met an earlier requirement, would have to be considered by the LVVTA Technical Working Group on a case by case basis, considering the validity of the evidence and the requirements it would have had to meet at the time.

[hobdar]

On 03/02/2021 at 16:09, KKtrips said:

As it has not been continuously registered since LVV certification coming into force (1992), then it requires a cert for the change to convertible and it should have had one in 1997.

If you are trying to avoid current requirements, you would need to provide evidence to back up a completion date, something like photos that can be dated, invoices for work related to the modification, insurance documents, a magazine article that confirms the modification and it's identity. However, documents such as statements from previous owners are not acceptable.

I'm not sure the requirements now would be massively different to 1997 so the prudent approach in this case would be for a certifier to assess the vehicle to current requirements and anything that does not meet now that could have met an earlier requirement, would have to be considered by the LVVTA Technical Working Group on a case by case basis, considering the validity of the evidence and the requirements it would have had to meet at the time.

So how is it registered as a convertible now? Could it not have been like the Daytona Beach Buggy, where it was brought into New Zealand, and sold as a new Car as a beach buggy and therefore no certificate was required?

[hobdar]

Just now, hobdar said:

So how is it registered as a convertible now? Could it not have been like the Daytona Beach Buggy, where it was brought into New Zealand, and sold as a new Car as a beach buggy and therefore no certificate was required?

Thanks for your input - not trying to avoid certification as there is some other stuff i have to get certified, but if i have to re-engineer the rollcage/seatbelt frame or the chassis strengthining thingy is just a PITA and more cost sunk but hey - sigh if its got to be done its got to be done.

[KKtrips]

2 hours ago, hobdar said:

So how is it registered as a convertible now?

My magic 8 ball says "I dunno", but if I had to guess, someone probably had a friend at the post office back in the day and got the name changed in the system.

 

2 hours ago, hobdar said:

Could it not have been like the Daytona Beach Buggy, where it was brought into New Zealand, and sold as a new Car as a beach buggy and therefore no certificate was required?

Daytona Beach Buggy's are kit cars and they always have met the definition of a scratchbuilt vehicle

If it was built before 1992 it should have a declaration, if it was built after 1992 it should have an LVVV cert.

If it doesn't have either then whoever is inspecting them for a WoF should get a kick up the ass.

If it had a declaration but it's registration lapses, it will require cert for the rego to be re-livened.
 

[Evan]

Have a question on retrofitting rear seatbelts, my Merc ('65 Fintail) would of originally had fixed diagonal seatbelts for the rear seats - there's an OEM mount in the top of the parcel shelf and in the bottom rear bulkhead/firewall towards the centre, but no mounts in the rear wheel tub area so can't have been 3 pointers, just a two point diagonal. Id like to upgrade this by poking a hole into the rear wheel arch to add a 3rd point and fit retractable unit to the factory mount on the rear parcel shelf and maintain the factory centre mount for the receiver. however I see there is this in the standards factsheet:

 

"2.5 Attachment requirements for all seatbelt anchorages 2.5(1) A seatbelt anchorage, other than a complete anchorage system where all components of the anchorage are provided, positioned, and installed by the vehicle manufacturer, including all associated hardware, fasteners, and reinforcements, must: (a) attach to a permanent part of the vehicle structure such as a pillar, floor section, or inner wheel arch; and (b) incorporate doubler plates, and where applicable a crush-tube, tubular spacer, or solid packer, which are designed and attached as specified in 2.6 and 2.7; and....."

 

Should I be interpreting that in a way that, because my complete system of anchorage points are not OEM - only 2 of the 3 would be, I need to double plate the OEM mounts as well as the one I'm installing in the wheel arch? 

 

 

[cletus]

You wont need to change the OEM anchorages,  have done heaps of certs where an extra anchorages have been fitted for upper or lower or retractor positions, where there is factory ones as part of it  

[Toddy415]

So what's the go with rules regarding having a head lining or not? Some people say you can get a wof without one some say you have to have one or does it depend on wof place?

[MRWEST]

@cletus couple of questions for you

Whats the story with suspension droop. I feel like iv been told you need 35mm of droop when jacking a car up to pass a ?cert? , cant remember exact details.
Is this right or am I dreaming?

Also the multi fit spacers are a no no from what iv seen on your insta storys etc, are there any spacers apart from full bolt on ones that are legal (eg the hubcentric ones with only your stud pattern on)? just need to clear wilwoods with flat faced wheels.

Cheers