cletus Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 On 8/20/2018 at 18:18, Rhyscar said: Hey guys, starting to make some decisions about my racecar build that require cert input. Firstly feel free to judge me for what I’m about to suggest I hate the thought of being another dick who wants to chop the front off his car and tube frame it but it literally solves a bunch of problems such as wheel clearance/oil cooler location/airbox location/aerodynamics and airflow management etc etc. I plan to leave the chassis rails and lower radiator crossmember untouched. Just chop the top arm off where the panel mounts and run it forward to mount the headlight and pick up a bonnet pin location. I’ll also run a bumper support tube for bumping people at the racetrack supersix/stockcar style. Is this allowed for the road? The car is caged and requires cert for other body mods (tunnel/pedal box/rear diffuser and fuel cell). Are there any exemptions or different rules for cars with authority cards in circumstances such as this where front impact etc is less of an issue. Im also keen to cut out a few additional bits of panel steel in the rear of the car. My fuel cell is under the car so I’d like to chop out most of the parcel tray and the unnecessary double skin below the b pillar. I will leave the support for the bottom of the rear window and adequately brace it so it doesn’t flex. Since it has a cage the extra bits of steel aren’t really needed for strength and removing it will save some weight and make it look nicer. Any thoughts on if this is certable? Car is a 1991 Toyota levin so no real strength required in the rear of the car probably best to talk to your local certifier to make sure what you want to do is ok with him, but what you are talking about is probably ok. the main thing to think of when modifying the front will be not making it too strong have a read of this. https://lvvta.org.nz/documents/standards/LVVTA_STD_Frontal_Impact.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyscar Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Awesome thanks Clint! Anyone you or others could recommend in Hamilton? yeah agree it makes a mess in a crash too. I’m aiming to use 1/2” tube at this stage as all it needs to do it hold the headlights and grill in place really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownCorona Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 i have a couple of basic questions. ones that could be asked of the certifier but i always forget to call in business hours. and he doesn't have a published email, fair enough, imagine the constant stream of emails asking if welded diffs are legal what is a basic pre cert shopping list gonna look like, do i need a fresh wheel alignment do i need to have failed a warrant noting all the things i want to cert or is that just an urban myth as it sounds super dumb is there any other hoop i need to jump through, other than supplying a car that is up to cert spec (i think im good, but am expecting to be bounced on a few things that i may have done wrong or forgotten) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajg193 Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 urban myth for the wof thing. Not sure about the wheel alignment. If it is the guy in Christchurch you generally need to book a week in advance. He is a bit of a Barry and won't let you out of the door without ranting for 5 mins about the new wof rules being too relaxed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP_wag Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Re wof pre certification, Christchurch dude asked me to do exactly that, though the two others I've done in the NI didn't ask for a WOF so I suspect it depends on the certifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownCorona Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 gonna be a case of asking i guess then. fuck thats dumb, ive spent the last two years thinking about all the things illegal about my car and the wof guys only ever pick up on the major things, im going to have to actually point out a bunch of stuff to fail me on. and yeah will be ian smith in chch, as thats the only option left. have heard ok things about him. don hoff who was very hit or miss as i hear (maybe hes the wof barry??) has retired or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nominal Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 Does the cert involve lowering or any suspension changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownCorona Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 yes/no the car is lowered, but not lower than 100mm so im not sure if its really involved with the cert as it doesn't brake the threshold? edit - lowered on 2" blocks, lower springs and shocks to suit. is wof legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP_wag Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 minute ago, BlownCorona said: gonna be a case of asking i guess then. fuck thats dumb, ive spent the last two years thinking about all the things illegal about my car and the wof guys only ever pick up on the major things, im going to have to actually point out a bunch of stuff to fail me on. and yeah will be ian smith in chch, as thats the only option left. have heard ok things about him. don hoff who was very hit or miss as i hear (maybe hes the wof barry??) has retired or something I can't remember who it was in chch, I do recall he was a GC though and he obviously enjoyed his job watching his ear to ear grin bouncing off the rev limiter during the speedo test Agree asking for a WOF is kinda dumb, especially if WOF guy doesn't pick stuff up. I'd prefer to do everything to a high level and go full disclosure with the cert guy for best insulation from law and subjective WOFs down the line. Would be annoying to be failing WOFs for something that could've been certed but never was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 My latest cert came with a fresh WOF from the same guy. It will depend on who you use as to the requirement of a pre cert check. Sure they may pick up dumb shit you can rectify prior to cert which would save the certifier time and you some money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedy Al Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 The underlying point is the certifier is declaring that the vehicle is legal at point of cert. So taking care of basic wof shit is in your best interest. But anyway Clint will some what confirm more. I actually can't remember if I went for a wof pre cert on my crown sedan or not. But the wheel alignment thing I can also understand as camber needs to meet correct standards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUL8R Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 @ Josh, last car we did for a work Colleague he needed to get a Pre Cert Wof done, which they failed (in this case for coilovers) He needed 3 signed copies of the wheel alignment report - however that is because of the coilovers. From memory Don & Ian want them done even if its lowered on Lowering springs if the vehicle is below 100mm. Anything radical or scratch built then it has to be disassembled and run through bumpsteer with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownCorona Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 hadnt thought of it in that light. it was always been said to me in the tone of. the mods need to have failed a wof before they get certed. but non cert related issues being fixed before the car is declared legal makes sense. will await clint/and a phone call to the local cert man. any other hoops i should expect to jump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownCorona Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 im 99% sure the car is around 105mm, i purposly changed to 14" rims and tires to suit being a legal ride height to minimise issues, but will check tomorrow. it does probably need an alignment but hoping to do it after cert when i can drive it into town a bit more stress free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nominal Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, BlownCorona said: im 99% sure the car is around 105mm, i purposly changed to 14" rims and tires to suit being a legal ride height to minimise issues, but will check tomorrow. it does probably need an alignment but hoping to do it after cert when i can drive it into town a bit more stress free You can get it certed lower than 100mm. Make sure you get the wheel size you want to run on the cert plate to minimise later issues. You can get more than one size on the plate. Sounds like you'll need to have the alignment done for cert, but you can get it done after the initial check. https://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_04-2012_Suspension_Camber_Angle_Guide.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 the wof thing isn't compulsory= the deal is, we have to check all the wof related items at the cert check- UNLESS its had a wof check within the last 14 days- then we don't have to check those things. some certifiers might ask for it every time because they base their pricing off not having to check those things sometimes I ask for a wof checksheet if the car is rough/rusty/loud/a bit of a liability taking responsibility for wof items it can make a cert cheaper- our hourly rate is $150 so if I don't have to fluff around checking indicator bulbs and window washers then we don't have to charge for it it can make the to do list a lot shorter- if there are 5 wof items that need repair and 3 items for cert- supplying a wof sheet means only having to fix 3 things before you get your cert plate 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 39 minutes ago, BlownCorona said: the mods need to have failed a wof before they get certed. a note on this, ive heard this before too but its an old wives tale, its up to the certifier to figure out what is modified, not rely on a wof inspector. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownCorona Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 ideal. will most likely put it through a pre check, and sounds like it may be requested anyway. as im a big fan of making things cheaper. another question for the cert man, but ill ask it here too. is it acceptable to fit a driveshaft hoop, and take photos of it correctly fastened under the carpet and then put the interior back in for cert? edit - the wheels on the car and suspension height are exactly how i want. i think i worded it badly before. have nailed down the look and feel i want before cert so i dont run into issues down the track. but the 13s with low pro tires were far too low, 65-70mm smashed everything on the road. looked cool but i dont want to ruin my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 I would accept that, you could take a photo with a ruler next to the plates to show they are the correct size 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownCorona Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 ill of course double check with the local man, but sounds good to me. possibly more a question for @CUL8R as hes in the industry, but after reading up on the link posted above RE. camber, it states no more than 0.5* more neg camber than stock. how do we go about wheel alignment specs for old cars. are the specs for my 71 corona likley to be available? ive never seen anything online and i dont think any of my haynes type manuals have that info. camber is easy to change on my car with a shim system, its probably got too much camber in the front as i fucked around with it years ago, performed well on track the other day though, rear not so much skip skip. but ill let a professional tell me its wrong before i/they fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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