Hyperblade

Hyperblade's KP61 Racecar "KP61R" Discussion

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There are pretty cheap alloy underdrive crank pulleys for K-series out there either china or more legit ones from USA. Might be something to look into if the alternator rev problem is a thing to be worried about, shave some rotating weight at the same time.

Love the build also, forum needs more K-series.

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Just now, Spencer said:

There are pretty cheap alloy underdrive crank pulleys for K-series out there either china or more legit ones from USA. Might be something to look into if the alternator rev problem is a thing to be worried about, shave some rotating weight at the same time.

Love the build also, forum needs more K-series.

You don't want to go anywhere near alloy crank pulleys, you need the harmonic dampening in the crank pulley, putting one of those ali ones on means it's only a matter of time until you destroy your crank.

Good video on it:

 

You can get legit aftermarket harmonic dampeners like the ati super damper, but they aren't cheap.

http://www.atiracing.com/links/pr/honda-k20-damper/index.htm

 

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It would be interesting to see if there's much difference on the knock sensor's background noise threshold when you're using a dampener or not. 
 

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I had a alloy pulley set on my old accord euro k24, no issues. They are widely used. Don't have one on current car but would love to test it out.

I do not think these crank pulleys are actually a engine saving dampener on a internally balanced 4 cyl engine (this is a old debate on the internet). You could get various older hondas with solid pulleys stock, B16a etc. The video above is a advertisement to buy a pulley. Below video is the reverse advertisement I guess.

 

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Sharn incoming

Cooper a series engines tended to come with a solid crank pulley, everything else had a bonded rubber one. So the higher reving higher compression & hp ones didn't have a damper, they didn't seem to break any more.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Roman said:

It would be interesting to see if there's much difference on the knock sensor's background noise threshold when you're using a dampener or not. 
 

I won't be running a knock sensor, so someone else will have to do that testing.

18 minutes ago, Spencer said:

I had a alloy pulley set on my old accord euro k24, no issues. They are widely used. Don't have one on current car but would love to test it out.

I do not think these crank pulleys are actually a engine saving dampener on a internally balanced 4 cyl engine (this is a old debate on the internet). You could get various older hondas with solid pulleys stock, B16a etc. The video above is a advertisement to buy a pulley. Below video is the reverse advertisement I guess.

 

Interesting, not sure about the argument that Honda didn't use it on X so we don't need to use it on Y. Why did Honda use it on Y then...

They spent mega dollars developing the K20/24 trying to get weight out of them, even going so far as to make hollow cam shafts, yet they still added the heavy dampener.

The argument that it's for the accessories has some merit, but you can clearly see it's just an opinion and they have done absolutely no testing on it, no complaints is a poor excuse for lack of actual real world testing, and it didn't break after x years is not testing.

Machining a aluminium pulley is easy stuff, easy sell too with "get more hp, faster revving" it's quite attractive to a customer.

That's the thing with dampeners you can get away with not using them if you avoiding the frequency so will be fine for years, but if your engine happens to run at that frequency then you get the damage.

Not a risk I think is worth taking personally.

Thanks for sharing though, always good to have debates on this stuff.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Hyperblade said:

Interesting, not sure about the argument that Honda didn't use it on X so we don't need to use it on Y. Why did Honda use it on Y then...

Counter balance shafts? :clown:

Yeah I hear what you mean. I dont know what to think about the topic, a lot of people are saying they're necessary but those same people blowing up oil pumps etc are nanging 9500rpm which is probably way past the max rpm that a slightly underdriven gerotor is meant to go.

But also - the path of least resistance is just to keep the OEM part in place, so why spend the money on something that could only be as good, or less good.

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16 hours ago, Roman said:

Counter balance shafts? :clown:

Yeah I hear what you mean. I dont know what to think about the topic, a lot of people are saying they're necessary but those same people blowing up oil pumps etc are nanging 9500rpm which is probably way past the max rpm that a slightly underdriven gerotor is meant to go.

But also - the path of least resistance is just to keep the OEM part in place, so why spend the money on something that could only be as good, or less good.

Good point on the counter balance shafts, your obviously paying to much attention, however the Civic and Integra don't run them and it's the same crank, block, head, camshafts as those engines etc so we can safely assume that was for the old man accords just to remove 4 cylinder vibration :P

I would probably be ok to run an Ali pulley as on the track you are generally always accelerating/decelerating so less risk of staying at one frequency, but you just never know.

 

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Just now, ajg193 said:

What's the story behind the lhd rack?

Guy got a friend in the US to send it over to him as he was putting a K24 in a starlet, so doing the same thing with the rack. No one wanted to do the fab work for him so he gave up on the project.

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That's a clever idea using the LHD rack.

This thing's coming together super quick!

Do the K motors have  a heat exchanger from factory like the beams motor does? 
If so will you be removing it?

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26 minutes ago, Roman said:

That's a clever idea using the LHD rack.

This thing's coming together super quick!

Do the K motors have  a heat exchanger from factory like the beams motor does? 
If so will you be removing it?

I was planning to do it in between seasons! COVID has slowed things up a bit, getting parts out of the US and UK is a lot harder and shipping has gone up significantly.

I was lucky to get the main components very early on as I knew they would be key to the whole process.

Paying someone to do the fabrication who has done plenty of different types of swaps and motorsport fab before makes a huge difference, he has so much experience so nothing is really unique and he often has a rough idea how he's going to do it, well before it's started, then it's just a simple matter of confirming locations and what i want etc and he's away. He's also put a BDA into a starlet (1.6 L that was faster then my BEAMS by 2s a lap...) so i'm getting V2 of all his ideas :D

It has been the least stressful part of the whole process, which i'm very grateful for as normally i would be pretty anxious about it all, but i'm just excited.

Some of the K motors (including mine) run an oil to water cooler sandwiched in between the oil filter and block. I'm removing it as with the water plate i don't have any coolant hoses to it.

image.png.5cd0b99e825ec0c4949c86a2a615274c.png

Unfortunately where it sits will fit a sandwich plate, but only rotated in an awkward way pointing towards the firewall, so you either space  it out, or go for a remote filter option (currently looking at)

image.png.9d8b09e67bc975fec46ce19f99cf95f8.png

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Although not relevant to this build, rumour has it that early tercel steering racks fit starlets, could have pointless power steering that way

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Wow this thing is coming along quick helps when you get an all round skilled person to do the job.

so now currently running full chassis rails? hard to tell with the photo. 

also i guess your not going to keep your radiator cooling fan mounted that way also? As they damage the core and eventually leak with those clips its best with a good shroud to mount the fan too. 

also going to run a front swaybar still? 

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Just now, piazzanoob said:

Wow this thing is coming along quick helps when you get an all round skilled person to do the job.

so now currently running full chassis rails? hard to tell with the photo. 

also i guess your not going to keep your radiator cooling fan mounted that way also? As they damage the core and eventually leak with those clips its best with a good shroud to mount the fan too. 

also going to run a front swaybar still? 

Definitely!

Na on the starlet the chassis rails stop around the front seats, we have put a minor one in above the muffler, but nothing major. It has a cage which helps with strength.

Have no intention of changing the fan at the moment as i've had no issues with it mounted the way it is (they are on foam), also will be ducting through bonnet so don't want to put a shroud on it as it will restrict air flow, it's hardly every used so doesn't need to be that efficient, and with EWP should have even less use. Been running fine so in the if it hasn't broken don't touch it camp!

Yep new front sway bar still needs to go on, just being measured up now, along with driveshaft.

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Just now, Hyperblade said:

Definitely!

Na on the starlet the chassis rails stop around the front seats, we have put a minor one in above the muffler, but nothing major. It has a cage which helps with strength.

Have no intention of changing the fan at the moment as i've had no issues with it mounted the way it is (they are on foam), also will be ducting through bonnet so don't want to put a shroud on it as it will restrict air flow, it's hardly every used so doesn't need to be that efficient, and with EWP should have even less use. Been running fine so in the if it hasn't broken don't touch it camp!

Yep new front sway bar still needs to go on, just being measured up now, along with driveshaft.

True true 

If using the factory sway bar D bush location were you going to strengthen those two corners? 

as after un stitching front chassis rail under radiator and sway bar mounts on my own starlet i have found they are not exactly that rigid in that area. but also might not be much of an issue in how the car handles and moves

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11 hours ago, piazzanoob said:

True true 

If using the factory sway bar D bush location were you going to strengthen those two corners? 

as after un stitching front chassis rail under radiator and sway bar mounts on my own starlet i have found they are not exactly that rigid in that area. but also might not be much of an issue in how the car handles and moves

Yep I'm planning to use the standard front sway bar location.

I haven't noticed any flex before, they have some pretty beefy gussets, front end is pretty solid. 

image.png.c2d48aa354ef395571f87656c7394c06.png

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looking sharp
does this still have 38mm main hoop ? did you have any issue with modifying cage members/gusseting ?
last time i talked to MSNZ about my cage, and wanting to add components, they were quite dark on it, but was 3-4 years ago, when the rebuild was supposed to happen.

 

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16 hours ago, smokin'joe said:

looking sharp
does this still have 38mm main hoop ? did you have any issue with modifying cage members/gusseting ?
last time i talked to MSNZ about my cage, and wanting to add components, they were quite dark on it, but was 3-4 years ago, when the rebuild was supposed to happen.

 

Yes still old hoop size.

Have to send paperwork off, but shouldn't have any issues. Working currently on getting sign off from original cage builder.

Msnz have a form for the changes.

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3 hours ago, Hyperblade said:

Yes still old hoop size.

 Working currently on getting sign off from original cage builder.

.

being contact with original builder is the key, from when i talked to tech office

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