keltik Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 you'd still need something that had driveshafts on the intake/new forward side of the block Citroen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Honda motors (B or H's) spin backwards and sit on the wrong side (passengers) of the engine bay. So in theory you would have the throttles facing forwards but wouldn't be able to push the weight back as far as you originally wanted. Through I'm pretty sure it would still be spinning the wrong way. So it's a win/lose but TBH, there's more to life than a 50/50 car - especially in FWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I think its more for awesome factor than anything else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Theres several advantages to doing it but like you say Markku, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen. It was just something I've been wanting to do for a few years now and I jumped at the opportunity, if it was going to be straight forward. As it's not, I'll now revert to the original plan. The biggest thing really was the driveshaft/CV angles, as these are very ugly with the engine sitting in the original location. Another idea that just popped into my head is running a K20A engine with an H22A gearbox spinning backwards. I won't turn the engine around, so the intake will still be at the front but the gearbox will be turned 180°, putting the output at the front of the engine also. It should actually drive the right direction too, being that the gearbox is being driven backwards. All makes sense in my head, but obviously it will be expensive to set up and might cause issues with rotating the gearbox in a reverse direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Don't think its as easy as just running the gearbox backwards - it could be a problem as the teeth will have been cut to run the other direction.. Not to count the fact that the oiling may have been designed to sling oil towards certain components? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I am no engineer, but does a helical cut gear in a gearbox have a "direction' cut into it? Oiling could be a problem but could be overcome by using a pump and pressure oiling it like cars with GB coolers have, maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Grumble Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Can you not just slap a honda engine and box in thar and turn the head round? I dont know what i'm talking about/i'm so confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hmm I guess thrust loads would change running things backwards? wheres the engineers haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdvl Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 you'd still need something that had driveshafts on the intake/new forward side of the block Citroen? Cit or Pug gearboxes should spin the way you want i think. I've got 2 under my house doing nothing if you want to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Don't think its as easy as just running the gearbox backwards - it could be a problem as the teeth will have been cut to run the other direction..Not to count the fact that the oiling may have been designed to sling oil towards certain components? I did heaps of research on it a while back - so hard to find anything on as the key words are generic and no one does stupid things like this. I managed to find 2 examples where people had tried it and it worked, an obscure British car and some old Audi from memory. One was in a kit car or something and the other was just a 5 speed to replace the feeble 3 or 4 speed factory box. Ofcourse, this means nothing to confirm that a Honda gearbox will also work the same way, but the basic principle worked. The splash oiling worked and also the reversed thrust loading, which are the two main concerns. Reversed helical cut gears didn't matter, nor syncromesh, but if it did a straight cut box could be an (expensive) option. Only problem is, to know for sure whether it will work the only real way to test it is to try it, and that would be an extremely costly excercise - probably not worth it for the risk. Cit or Pug gearboxes should spin the way you want i think. I've got 2 under my house doing nothing if you want to play.Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any citroen or pug transverse engines have gearboxes that output at the front of the engine bay? (they're all at the rear of the block still?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 FWIW - they have the gearbox on the left hand side (passenger side) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hah... Conclusion - bolt it in the normal way, build cage and I'll see you at the track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My name is Russell Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 pinto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_m Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 What about an evo gearbox? Dont some of those run the engine on passenger side and the motor runs clockwise. So the difference must be in the gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 That's a bloody good point. Early Evo (1,2,3's) ran the gearbox on the drivers side and the engine spins clockwise... I wonder if there's a good FWD equivalent. PHIL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 A Mitsubishi box would allow me to turn the engine around, but driveshafts will still be at the rear on the engine bay Plus even Phil admits that Mitsi boxes are a little bit clunky and smelly. Hah... Conclusion - bolt it in the normal way, build cage and I'll see you at the track!This. Will just jam it all together and go racing while I coin another stupid idea to attempt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Loving some outside the square thinking going on here, and some of the trial/error research etc going on. Not always gonna come up with a good solution first time around when you're exploring uncharted territory. God knows I've had my share of failed ideas and prototypes before coming up with something I've been happy with, for ideas much more modest than what you are undertaking. Probably not appropriate for this car, but I reckon rear mount radiator is a cool idea! If wanting to keep car looking BTCCish it's pretty hard to incorporate big vented outlets in the rear, haha. In terms of SW20 radiator cooling capacity... I ran an SW20 with no radiator fans running, both on the track and driving around on the road, temperature never climbed above half way. Although I'm not sure if that's more testament to the thermal mass of the large amount of coolant, or the cooling capacity of the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuel Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 yeah I was going to suggest Mitsi box but realised the driveshafts would still be in the wrong place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrstar Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 What would be supreme would be a K20A with the engine on the drivers side mounted to an H22A box which would give 5 forward gears and have the driveshafts at the front.. (yes the gearbox would be "driven" backwards). The engine would have the sweet lean on and have the intake at the front. But man you would need to have the engine sitting a looonnngg way back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_m Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 k20 engines are fucking sweet too. Yanks are pushing the 2Ls up around 300whp NA and the 2.4+s over 400whp Such sweet motors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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