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Adoom's 1981 Mini 1000. Discussion


Adoom
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 17/04/2022 at 17:37, Adoom said:

Unfortunately not. Still got a distributor. I did discover that the coil lives inside the distributor, which I've not seen before, but I assume they all do?

 

yoeddynz sent me to check out your thread...

The dizzy engines really aren't too bad in my experience, I've had no failures of dizzy or throttle body (touch wood) and depending how far you're going to push it the dizzy seems up to the task.

I also used to think the cg10de small gearbox would be nice but my cg13de box fits and frankly I think the ratios are pretty ideal except 1st is too short but the others are pretty good on 10 inch wheels 3,200rpm at 100km/hr and 3,500? at 110km/hr... I forget but it's perfectly happy sitting at 110km for hours on end and not loud or uncomfortable. 

I've a sparse build thread here:

https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/253043-spot-the-micra-mini/#

Feel free to ask any questions or message etc.

BTW pretty sure you can use the cga3de crank in a cg13de to make a stroker then there's options for pistons out to 73.4mm to almost get a 1400cc 

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11 hours ago, fuzzy-hair-man said:

yoeddynz sent me to check out your thread...

The dizzy engines really aren't too bad in my experience, I've had no failures of dizzy or throttle body (touch wood) and depending how far you're going to push it the dizzy seems up to the task.

I also used to think the cg10de small gearbox would be nice but my cg13de box fits and frankly I think the ratios are pretty ideal except 1st is too short but the others are pretty good on 10 inch wheels 3,200rpm at 100km/hr and 3,500? at 110km/hr... I forget but it's perfectly happy sitting at 110km for hours on end and not loud or uncomfortable. 

I've a sparse build thread here:

https://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/253043-spot-the-micra-mini/#

Feel free to ask any questions or message etc.

BTW pretty sure you can use the cga3de crank in a cg13de to make a stroker then there's options for pistons out to 73.4mm to almost get a 1400cc 

Thanks, I'll have a look at your thread.

I worked out, by counting revolutions, my gearbox is 3.915:1. So on paper... or excel, I came up with similar rpm at 100kph on 10" wheels to you. 3240rpm.

I suppose I could get a CG10DE, keep the original pistons, use the CGA crank to get a capacity somewhere between a CG13 and a CGA3, unless that makes the pistons come up above the deck. And the CGA cams...? I've been unable to find any information about differences between the cams in a CG10/CG13/CGA3.

Plans to build a franken engine is a bit scuppered when a full gasket set(from a local supplier) costs >$400!!! And a CGA3 or CG13 longblock assembly from the engine importers is <$400.

I did notice that AliExpress has full gasket sets for under $100.... but does that automatically make them shit...? It's about what I would expect to pay for a gasket set from RockAuto but the US never got the CG engine.

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Gearbox sounds good then. 

You can use CG10DE pistons to increase the compression which is what my new engine does. 

Cg13de cams are more aggressive than cg10de cams it's an upgrade for those with a cg10de. I think the cga3de is slightly different to a cg13de cam but compatibility is an issue as there's no dizzy drive and probably other things.

If you can get a running engine that makes more sense especially at this stage, no sense getting bogged down in an engine rebuild, I built an engine because I got it cheap and as a learning experience but it was expensive. 

The later micras have NATS (Nissan Anti Theft System) which uses a different ECU which can't get Nistune and is a pain to work around as you need the key, transponder ring and the ECU as a set unless you go standalone. I'd look for an early cg13de, sorry I don't know when the changeover happened we only got the dizzy cg13de non NATS here.

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My CGA3DE is from a Z10 cube. It's a dizzy version, so in theory I could use the cams in a CG13DE. But then, are the cams in a dizzy/non-dizzy CGA3 the same?
Looking at Trademe and PickAPart, for Z10 and K11's I've not actually come across any COP/non-dizzy models so far. I think I came across something saying all JDM CG engines were dizzy versions and the non-dizzy was a Euro market. Could be wrong though. Most of the ones in NZ will be JDM as far as I know. No idea what you guys got in 'straya.

Most of the info I've come across on these engines seems to be people on forums who are guessing or repeating what another person has said... who may also have been guessing.

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I didn't know there was a dizzy version of the cga3de :shock: the Aussie ones are all dizzy cg13de so it makes it simple but we don't get some of the variety and options, they halted imports before the facelift. I believe they were UK made. The cams between COP and dizzy may actually be interchangeable thinking about it as there's a drive slot at the rear of the exhaust cam which may just not be used.

I got a lot of info from the micra forums in the UK but forgot most of the stuff that didn't apply to the cg13de. 

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9 hours ago, fuzzy-hair-man said:

later micras have NATS (Nissan Anti Theft System) which uses a different ECU which can't get Nistune

That NATS system is not present on any of the Japanese market marches that we have here.

..Luckily!

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@Adoom we still have the low mileage cg10de sitting ere that came out of Minky. I think it's done 140,000. It was a fine runner and well serived before we pulled it out. I was just going to throw it up on TM or marketplace and didn't think you might be interested in it as its a 1.0. But maybe it could be useful? I have no idea what they are worth either.

Problem being its here..quite far away.

 

20220430_164906 (Custom) (Custom) (Large).jpg

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13 minutes ago, yoeddynz said:

@Adoom we still have the low mileage cg10de sitting ere that came out of Minky. I think it's done 140,000. It was a fine runner and well serived before we pulled it out. I was just going to throw it up on TM or marketplace and didn't think you might be interested in it as its a 1.0. But maybe it could be useful? I have no idea what they are worth either.

Problem being its here..quite far away.

 

 

I'll be down in Brightwater next weekend, bring home a small truck....

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16 minutes ago, yoeddynz said:

@Adoom we still have the low mileage cg10de sitting ere that came out of Minky. I think it's done 140,000. It was a fine runner and well serived before we pulled it out. I was just going to throw it up on TM or marketplace and didn't think you might be interested in it as its a 1.0. But maybe it could be useful? I have no idea what they are worth either.

Problem being its here..quite far away.

 

20220430_164906 (Custom) (Custom) (Large).jpg

Hmmm. Hypothetically I could put my CGA3DE crank in it and make a 1311cc engine. I think I should be able to do that without removing the head and costing myself a top end gasket set and head bolt set. But I might need different crank bearings unless I'm super lucky and they are the same.

If it was cheap, like $100 and @Nominal would be so kind as to pick it up and take it over the water with him for beers/booze/high fives. I'd be into it if you are. I can collect it from Nominal where ever he is in Wellington.

2 minutes ago, Nominal said:

I'll be down in Brightwater next weekend, bring home a small truck....

 

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50 minutes ago, Adoom said:

Hmmm. Hypothetically I could put my CGA3DE crank in it and make a 1311cc engine. I think I should be able to do that without removing the head and costing myself a top end gasket set and head bolt set. But I might need different crank bearings unless I'm super lucky and they are the same.

You'll need to take the head off, the blocks are the same so the difference in stroke is made up by the conrods on the cg10de being longer, you'd need to remove the cga3de pistons from thier rods and put the cg10de pistons on. Probably want to double check wrist pin to piston top height is the same as cg13de and cg10de pistons.

I put cg10de pistons in my new engine.

The cg13de bearings are graded so that makes bearings swapping over probably less likely...

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8 hours ago, Adoom said:

If it was cheap, like $100 and @Nominal would be so kind as to pick it up and take it over the water with him

Yeah you can have it for that. It's a long block - no dizzy, alternator or inlet manifold etc (the dizzy/alt went straight onto our Cg13 and we've kept the inlet/tb for spares.  It was bolted to an auto so no flywheel. 

But it is a genuine low mileage, unopened engine. 

Edit: pics of it in this thread when I was trying to convince @dmulally to see the light for his imp...

 

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9 hours ago, fuzzy-hair-man said:

You'll need to take the head off, the blocks are the same so the difference in stroke is made up by the conrods on the cg10de being longer, you'd need to remove the cga3de pistons from thier rods and put the cg10de pistons on. Probably want to double check wrist pin to piston top height is the same as cg13de and cg10de pistons.

I put cg10de pistons in my new engine.

The cg13de bearings are graded so that makes bearings swapping over probably less likely...

Yeh, I did further thinking after going to bed. That all makes sense.

According to the workshop manuals I have.......

CG10 rod is ~9mm longer. CGA3 and CG13 uses the same rod length.

All of the engines seem to have the same size valves.

CGA3 and CG13 share the same cam.

I'm assuming the combustion chamber volumes are the same for all engines and the pistons have more/less dish to get the compression ratio to 9.5:1

Assuming the CG10 pistons are flat top(google images seem to back this up), my rough mathculations for the longer stroke give me a compression ratio of 11.8:1 :???: Which seems a bit high since I'd like to boost it.

I suppose I could chuck the pistons in the lathe and dish them myself.

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2 hours ago, yoeddynz said:

Yeah you can have it for that. It's a long block - no dizzy, alternator or inlet manifold etc (the dizzy/alt went straight onto our Cg13 and we've kept the inlet/tb for spares.  It was bolted to an auto so no flywheel. 

But it is a genuine low mileage, unopened engine. 

Edit: pics of it in this thread when I was trying to convince @dmulally to see the light for his imp...

 

I think I'll pass. It would have been interesting to build an engine, but with the added cost of bearings and gaskets, I'll be better off just getting a good CGA3DE.

Thanks for the offer.

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