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Romans 2005 Toyota Echo


Roman
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This is what I was up against with the IAT situation, just looking at some logs.
IAT approaching 70 degrees while staging! 
So because I've mostly tuned this during colder conditions, I've been on the conservative side of things for high IAT for knock related reasons. 
I've never seen IAT anywhere near this, usually because car keeps moving while I'm doing anything fun. 
So I think I need to better shield the intake from engine bay heat, but also there's not necessarily much I can do about it if the car is just sitting there for minutes at a time. 
I'm only running about 25 deg max advance, but it's pulling out 7 deg in first gear because of heat. 
So I'll try get to a nightwars next time, assuming they start up again at some point. 

image.thumb.png.a355d7f00612e5d922fd9fd7b551f94e.png

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There isn't that much heat transfer from  manifold to the air when full nang. not enough time/ length / surface area.   kinda different story with intercooler. 

@Roman  where is your iat senor ?   Do you think the sensor heat soaking?  looks like the iat start to drop a bit in the burnout when car isn't really moving. just some aiflow though intake. 
assuming you were running with your airbox on?  maybe having the sensor right down close to air filter as possible, if its not there already,  would help the situation

/ do a bigger burnout, maybe half track then back up.  since basically pro import car im sure the track officials will be fine with it.   then you'll be good to go.

Edit:  also on that note ^   when i did a big burnout in the kp,  it always trapped faster, which i thought was weird. until started playing with stuff on dyno, which showed with hot oil vs cold oil can be a significant change in power 

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Yeah I dont know what's going on with the sensor, I've used this same sensor previously and it's been insanely quick to react. Like almost instant with throttle.
But the last few I've used have seemed sluggy. Maybe that have a glass coated thermistor and the other ones were exposed. Maybe I shouldnt buy aliexpress IAT sensors, who knows. hahaha.

Yeah ideally I'd just be able to clamp the IAT reading to ambient air and ignore the heat soak from staging. As its 100% fake news.
For next drags I might setup the IAT sensor as a general purpose one instead so it wont affect the tune. 

The IAT sensor is down near the pod filter on the back side of the intake tube. 
Towards the end of the day I turned the radiator fan on full time to keep some airflow going. 

On the launch and burnouts man there were some big smacking sounds coming from engine bay hahaha.
A few times I thought an axle might have popped out. 
I think pod filter hits the bumper, but also sounds like the engine mounts hit limit of their travel or something. 
Currently standard rubber in the mounts with shore A 60 polyurethane filling the gaps. 
I think maybe I need to do some full poly mounts, and maybe go shore 80 for the rear one. 

 

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1 hour ago, kpr said:

There isn't that much heat transfer from  manifold to the air when full nang. not enough time/ length / surface area.   kinda different story with intercooler. 

@Roman  where is your iat senor ?   Do you think the sensor heat soaking?  looks like the iat start to drop a bit in the burnout when car isn't really moving. just some aiflow though intake. 
assuming you were running with your airbox on?  maybe having the sensor right down close to air filter as possible, if its not there already,  would help the situation

/ do a bigger burnout, maybe half track then back up.  since basically pro import car im sure the track officials will be fine with it.   then you'll be good to go.

Edit:  also on that note ^   when i did a big burnout in the kp,  it always trapped faster, which i thought was weird. until started playing with stuff on dyno, which showed with hot oil vs cold oil can be a significant change in power 

image.png.dee09a5768a02b1f33a62a1902e63a48.png

On my shit box starlet with long steel runners there is pretty significant heat transfer at full nang. That alone is good motivation to change to plastic trumpets on a short itb setup.

/Ling

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1 hour ago, ajg193 said:

image.png.dee09a5768a02b1f33a62a1902e63a48.png

On my shit box starlet with long steel runners there is pretty significant heat transfer at full nang. That alone is good motivation to change to plastic trumpets on a short itb setup.

/Ling

how did you measure the difference?    do you have an iat sensor at both ends of the inlet runner?

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2 hours ago, Roman said:

Yeah I dont know what's going on with the sensor, I've used this same sensor previously and it's been insanely quick to react. Like almost instant with throttle.
But the last few I've used have seemed sluggy. Maybe that have a glass coated thermistor and the other ones were exposed. Maybe I shouldnt buy aliexpress IAT sensors, who knows. hahaha.

Yeah ideally I'd just be able to clamp the IAT reading to ambient air and ignore the heat soak from staging. As its 100% fake news.
For next drags I might setup the IAT sensor as a general purpose one instead so it wont affect the tune. 

The IAT sensor is down near the pod filter on the back side of the intake tube. 
Towards the end of the day I turned the radiator fan on full time to keep some airflow going. 

On the launch and burnouts man there were some big smacking sounds coming from engine bay hahaha.
A few times I thought an axle might have popped out. 
I think pod filter hits the bumper, but also sounds like the engine mounts hit limit of their travel or something. 
Currently standard rubber in the mounts with shore A 60 polyurethane filling the gaps. 
I think maybe I need to do some full poly mounts, and maybe go shore 80 for the rear one. 

 

Yeah probably fine to run no or less ign compensation.    in the low gears with not much load  far less likely to get knock anyway, even if its actually hot.  I dont even run an iat sesnor on the kp, but its pretty far away from knock, so not really an issue

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1 hour ago, h4nd said:

Kinda impressed that you ticked up +10°C ECT in 15 seconds!

It's like that! 

Not sure if it's something to do with alloy block, but compared to other motors I've had, it seems to gain and then lose engine temp really quickly. 

Or maybe the thermostat is just a bit sluggy. It's still got the normal 1NZFXE thermostat in there that the motor came with. I'm not sure if they make it "slow" on purpose perhaps. Compared to the regular engines. 

Or maybe it's because this electric waterpump is only rated to move water around to suit a 75hp engine haha.

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1 hour ago, kpr said:

how did you measure the difference?    do you have an iat sensor at both ends of the inlet runner?

That's the result of numerical simulations, takes in runner dimensions, cylinder volume, calibrated mass flow and some fluid properties. Model appears to be accurate to within 5-10% across a range of engine and iat based on datalogs. Maybe one day I will add extra sensor but there isn't a lot of room down by the head

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@ajg193 I have actually no idea how to read your graph. Do you have anything  that shows temperature change along x length of pipe at a certain temperature?  I've gone out of my way to isolate/ insulate the shit out of my intake. Be interesting to know how much a waste of my life it was 

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2 hours ago, kpr said:

@ajg193 I have actually no idea how to read your graph. Do you have anything  that shows temperature change along x length of pipe at a certain temperature?  I've gone out of my way to isolate/ insulate the shit out of my intake. Be interesting to know how much a waste of my life it was 

I'll generate some graph tonight, it all depends on the flow velocity, diameter and temperature of pipe

 

X axis on that graph is pretty much mass flow rate per cylinder

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