yoeddynz

DIY Fuel injection thread.

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, peteretep said:

wat, just tune it yourself, its not that hard

Fuel is easy, especially with auto tune, but getting ignition just right without a dyno/knock gear is a lot harder.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, kws said:

Fuel is easy, especially with auto tune, but getting ignition just right without a dyno/knock gear is a lot harder.

While it is easy to get your AFR's to whatever arbitrary value you have decided you want, it doesn't mean you will get optimal power/efficiency.

You really should use a dyno for the tuning, only using the road to configure the model for maximum tune robustness (temperature curves etc).

 

/says the person who is running a car with a pure road tune.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/11/2018 at 19:51, Honda Ass Dragger said:

From what i hear Emtron is very much a Link ala Vipec

 

There are some stories of skullduggery which could explain some similarities in the software between Links and Emtrons, but like it or not the Emtron is a different product from a different brand and a definite level up from the Link...  while Vipec being "very much a Link" is actually because they are Links.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 23/11/2018 at 18:46, linearentropy said:

Thats exactly why I've ruled out Megasquirt.   Theres a 'uuuuge community online of MX5 owners that run megasquirt, even people that build custom boards tailored to exactly what fellow hairdressers need.  These are usually priced very competitively too. 

Unfortunately if you ask about them on the nz mx5 facebook pages you'll find that theres only really a couple of people in NZ that bother to tune them, and theres a lot of people with blown motors who wouldnt recommend going to said tuners after learning the hard way.

Right. 

Let's quash this right here. There is a dude on mx5 pages who is very vocal about megasquirts on mx5s. 

His name is Daniel heaphy, he may be on there, I don't care id say all this to his face. 

He bashes on megasquirt like you wouldn't belive, yet has never owned one. Just read stories online and 'has mates who blew up their engine cause of megasquirt' 

He speels off all this bullshit and then when the large amout of mx5 megasquirt runners and supporters steam roll his arguments he deletes the threads cause he's a moderator. 

He does this all while running 272 cams on a stock ecu/engine. He's not a smart man. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hasmates who blew up their engine cause of megasquirt'

 

 

because of poor tuning rather than the equipment eh

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, BlownCorona said:

Right. 

Let's quash this right here.

The reasons for megasquirt having a bad reputation are a bit self fulfilling and in some ways warranted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

come on, we are in the DIY fuel injection thread, this is about testing shit and learning, and theoretically not paying people to do stuff on your car

 

and megasquirts are great, I have had minimal problems with mine, I just had some good knowledgeable dudes help me with it

 

Also, this stuff is actually fairly complicated, no matter what an experienced person tells you, and requires hours upon hours of research and faffing around, with probably the wrong bits giving you the wrong info, but thats all parts of the learning experience innit

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that echos a conversation that was had last night amongst some friends. 

If you don't know anything about tuning, don't want to learn, don't have the time or simply don't care and just want to pay some money and get a running car asap then great, link/haltech/etc/etc have you covered 

But 

That doesn't mean that every car with any variant of megasquirt is going to suffer a failure. If link offered their ecus in kitset you'd see similar issues. 

That said I know the early gen megasquirt (like I'm running) are significantcantly older tech and you do have to take some further precautions to look after the ecu. 

There are more than a few success stories even just here on oldschool, it's just people comparing a link g4+ to a megasquirt 1 which pisses me and alot of others off. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, BlownCorona said:

He bashes on megasquirt like you wouldn't belive, yet has never owned one. Just read stories online and 'has mates who blew up their engine cause of megasquirt' 

I had another vehicle a few years ago with a Megasquirt 1 powering a 1UZ.. and it ran that shit flawlessly.

I certainly have nothing against the megasquirt hardware or tuning software, hell I still have a license for Tunerstudio.

But when the one tuner that advertises tuning Megasquirts has tuned a good friends MX5s that blew up shortly after.  It kindof puts me off.

While I'll be trying to road tune it myself, I know what I don't know. And tuning for ITBs seems like quite the fuckaround, so it'd be nice to take it somewhere reputable for an hour or 2 of dyno time to sort out any issues and to make sure I don't ping the motor to death.

 

That being said I can get a plug & play Megasquirt for the right price, I have knowledge of the tuning software, and the whole point of going down this path was to learn more about tuning a vehicle from scratch.    

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, linearentropy said:

 

But when the one tuner that advertises tuning Megasquirts has tuned a good friends MX5s that blew up shortly after.  It kindof puts me off.

 

What was the actual failure? Because anyone could program any ecu, or build an engine with an error and cause a failure. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean come on.. Ring lands blow because the engine is running too much boost for the ring gap. 

The rings expand due to the extra heat, the gap closes up and the ring has nowhere to go but up, therefor breaking the piston. 

My car is only on 3psi of boost untill I take the engine appart to specifically open the ring gap for this exact reason. 

I'm guessing your mate chucked 15-20 psi at an otherwise stock motor? Mx5 engines are pretty stout and will take that, but I'd always be looking at opening the ring gap for boost 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've done close to 20,000 km (14 months) with my microsquirt so far. The only ecu caused issue I had was when a resistor burnt out in the first 5 seconds of operation, but that is a known common fault with them and takes all of 5 mins to repair. There are people out there that have done 300,000+ km/10 years without any issues using megasquirts - in harsh environments like off-roading too.

All other faults were my own doing (like the loom being melted on the exhaust manifold on day 1 or my injectors leaking (don't use old injectors)).

That being said, I'm still running it in a fuel-only mode so it is a fairly basic setup. It is all wired and ready to go for as soon as I want to set up ECU controlled ignition, just need to stick a CAS on the flywheel but I don't feel like doing it at the moment.

 

The other day I started the car with the MAP sensor plumbed to free air instead of the manifold (I forgot to reconnect it after dealing with an exhaust leak) and the car actually ran, albeit way too rich and super lumpy. I would have thought it would have just flooded and not ran at all. Took a minute or two before I diagnosed the problem.

 

 

 

 

/If I did it again I would probably just design and build my own ECU from scratch for my specific application, or just fall for the marketeering and get a link. But there isn't really anything wrong with megasquirts. I probably saved about a grand by doing microsquirt compared to a link atom.

 

 

Also, stay away from Innovate LC-2 controllers for oxygen sensors. They seem to have a fairly poor reputation. The 14point7 or whatnot are supposedly good?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing with, building and tuning my Speeduino was awesome. Grass Roots ECU at its best. Links are great, but more a chequebook setup than megasquirt etc. Nothing wrong with that but not really what diy is about. 

I have another Speeduino sitting here waiting for another project. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, BlownCorona said:

I mean come on.. Ring lands blow because the engine is running too much boost for the ring gap. 

The rings expand due to the extra heat, the gap closes up and the ring has nowhere to go but up, therefor breaking the piston. 

My car is only on 3psi of boost untill I take the engine appart to specifically open the ring gap for this exact reason. 

I'm guessing your mate chucked 15-20 psi at an otherwise stock motor? Mx5 engines are pretty stout and will take that, but I'd always be looking at opening the ring gap for boost 

I know what you're saying, I dont know enough about what happened and I certainly don't want to argue.   From what I know, it was the power level that the tuner suggested for a 1.8L MX5 engine.. 220hp atw.

 

13 minutes ago, ajg193 said:

Also, stay away from Innovate LC-2 controllers for oxygen sensors. They seem to have a fairly poor reputation. The 14point7 or whatnot are supposedly good?

I'll be using the 14point7 spartan, so should be sweet on that one.

 

3 minutes ago, kws said:

Playing with, building and tuning my Speeduino was awesome. Grass Roots ECU at its best. Links are great, but more a chequebook setup than megasquirt etc. Nothing wrong with that but not really what diy is about. 

I've been following Speeduino for some time.  Its certainly a cool project, but again I know what I cant do, and assembly of a board is one of those things.  

Ya'll have made me reconsider going down the (prebuilt) megasquirt route.  I'll need to have another rethink of what to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tunerstudio is super easy to learn the basics, and for MS there are soooo many tutorials and forum posts that almost everything has been covered at some point. 

I'd say go for it, personally. 

Just as an aside, Speeduino is now available as a prebuilt board

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BlownCorona said:

stuff

The point of contention here is the tuner in Tauranga, who just so happens to sell a whole bunch of megasquirts.

What he does isnt megasquirts fault but it doesnt help its reputation.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kws said:

Playing with, building and tuning my Speeduino was awesome. Grass Roots ECU at its best. Links are great, but more a chequebook setup than megasquirt etc. Nothing wrong with that but not really what diy is about. 

True, this thread has been a general catch-all for EFI related stuff. 

Shall we partition out non DIY ECU type stuff to elsewhere? 

In my mind tuning your own ECU etc is DIY as it's often been a thing most people consider just in the domain of tuners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not worried personally. I'm a big fan of seeing other people tinker no matter the setup. 

Nothing like some @Roman graphs and science to go over my head but impress me. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/11/2018 at 12:31, Lith said:

There are some stories of skullduggery which could explain some similarities in the software between Links and Emtrons, but like it or not the Emtron is a different product from a different brand and a definite level up from the Link...  while Vipec being "very much a Link" is actually because they are Links.

Oh lots of Skullduggery - Pretty sure Ray Hall who originally released the Vipec was heavily involved in the EMTRON

Appears to be a few new brands filtering over here as well now from Europe and America now, specially, MAXX ECU and FUELTECH

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.