DIY Fuel injection thread.

[kpr]

your fuel map should go down to zero rpm.    making the numbers the same from  the column it idles in,, back down to zero rpm should get you close enough . 

Post a screen cap of you fuel map

[kws]

I don't have a copy of the Ve table on my phone, but it starts at 600rpm as that's about 100rpm lower than my idle in gear.  Not sure I have seen any use a Ve table that starts at 0rpm?

can upload a screen cap tonight. 

[kpr]

sorry haven't used anything tuner studio base for years.  All the link stuff starts at 0rpm.   im just guessing, but at  cranking speed its probably going to use what ever is in your 600rpm column,  plus  your crank enrich. 

I take it you can adjust the crank enrich based on temperature?  you are going to need  a lot of crank enrich when cold and not so much when warm.

did you end up moving the vr sensor closer?

[yoeddynz]

The boffin at Extra Efi has some good videos to watch. These two might be useful just to help you double check a few things (handily this boffin is a Rover V8 barry Boffin, hence the initial settings in the 'Extra' code one uploads onto an MS2 are for an RV8)

 

 

[Roman]

On 8/1/2017 at 19:23, Firetruck said:

Disable all your warmup and cranking enrichments and then tweak your fuel map until it starts hot. Then fiddle your cranking enrichment until it starts faster hot.Then redo your cold fuel enrichment if necessary.

Just a note on this...

If you're using a MAP sensor, since your engine doesnt really generate any vaccum during cranking, or at start of cranking at least.

You will find that the 0rpm 100kpa cell, you only ever reach this during cranking. So you can bump this value here specifically for cranking enrichment if needed.

EDIT: Nevermind I was too stupid to read the last few pages before posting

I've just spent a bunch of time trying to get my idle to start nicely under all conditions.

Something to consider is that when you have the engine just running by itself, it's a lot different when you have full beams on, engine fan running, interior fan running, brake lights on, and loading it up as much as possible. Maybe exaggerated a bit if you have a light flywheel.

So when you have your car hot and you're tuning the idle, do it all first with no load, and then put lots of load on it by turning everything on, and it will take you to a different set of cells and you might find your car runs like shit again.  But if you hold these conditions you can then adjust fuel/timing/etc as needed to make it idle nicely there too.

[kws]

I havent moved the crank sensor yet, but i think thats the next step in things to do, so ill do it in the next few days. About to head to bed but ill watch those videos tomorrow, hopefully glean some info from them.

Can confirm tonight that when warm starting, after a lot of cranking when it does start there is a big plume of black smoke emitted. Shes a tad rich.

Megasquirt/Speeduino must work differently to Link because it doesnt reference the map at all until the engine in is "running" condition/over set/400rpm. From what i read today, the cranking enrichment is on top of the Req fuel, and apparently also on top of all other enrichments like WUE. I may need to wait until next months firmware update until i can fix the cranking richness, as thats when the cranking enrichment is changing from single point to a small map.

My idle is mint, i spent a lot of time getting that sorted, and took special efforts to factor in all the load conditions i could (power steering with headlights on was the biggest drain for me).

[kws]

Checked crank sensor, i get some drag when running 1mm of feeler gauges between the sensor and wheel. Guess its where it should be, any closer and it'd probably touch.

[Roman]

Do you have any logging you can use, so you can tell how long the ECU is taking to sync with the triggers while it's cranking? 

If it's getting a signal very quickly then  you know you can start looking elsewhere, like fiddling with cranking enrichment or ignition values 

[ajg193]

I'm thinking of doing a fuel only EFI system for the KP.

 

I'd buy this EFI system and ditch the ECU, MAF, loom and TPS and get a potentiometer type TPS, wideband O2 sensor, MAP and a Speeduino and make a new loom for it.

I'd have to sort something out for an inline high pressure fuel pump near the tank. There are already mounts along the chassis for a return line, if I could track down a normal feed line for a KP I could just stick that in and use it as a return.

 

I'd use the pulses from the ignition system (electronic distributor) to tell the ECU how fast the engine is running.

I would also probably ditch the idle bleed air valve and replace it with something electrically actuated.

 

I think I would need to make up some braces to support the EFI plenum as they look like they are missing.

 

~$400 for system from trademe

~$250 for speeduino

~$300 for wideband with controller

~$?? for fuel pump, hoses and filter - second hand or brand new pump?

~$?? for wiring, plugs, fuses and covers - I have decent soldering station and some electrical tools, I have a few rolls of wiring which should be suitable

~$?? for TPS and idle control valve - second hand or brand new units? Would a generic waterproof potentiometer be suitable for a TPS?

~$?? for intake piping and filter - maybe something off of an AE101?

I'd aim to make something that is as bolt on as possible, from what I can gather I would get away with only having to drill a hole on the exhaust and put a bung on for the O2 sensor. I reckon I would get away with just putting a T on the fuel tank where the pump would go, allowing for the return fuel to get back into the tank. I'm not sure what I would do regarding baffling in the tank or if this would even be a huge issue with this car. I don't really want to do anything like putting a surge tank in as this would probably require drilling holes in the car.

There are already mounting holes for a fuel pump assembly on the chassis of the car in front of the fuel tank.

 

Would this be worthwhile or pushing shit up hill?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/toyota/other/auction-1381833266.htm

 

I'd also like to do something such that it looks like factory and won't give me any issues come WoF time, I don't feel like forking out half a grand for a cert.

[scooters]

Just now, ajg193 said:

I'm thinking of doing a fuel only EFI system for the KP.

 

I'd buy this EFI system and ditch the ECU, MAF, loom and TPS and get a potentiometer type TPS, wideband O2 sensor, MAP and a Speeduino and make a new loom for it.

I'd have to sort something out for an inline high pressure fuel pump near the tank. There are already mounts along the chassis for a return line, if I could track down a normal feed line for a KP I could just stick that in and use it as a return.

 

I'd use the pulses from the ignition system (electronic distributor) to tell the ECU how fast the engine is running.

I would also probably ditch the idle bleed air valve and replace it with something electrically actuated.

 

I think I would need to make up some braces to support the EFI plenum as they look like they are missing.

 

~$400 for system from trademe

~$250 for speeduino

~$300 for wideband with controller

~$?? for fuel pump, hoses and filter - second hand or brand new pump?

~$?? for wiring, plugs, fuses and covers - I have decent soldering station and some electrical tools, I have a few rolls of wiring which should be suitable

~$?? for TPS and idle control valve - second hand or brand new units? Would a generic waterproof potentiometer be suitable for a TPS?

~$?? for intake piping and filter - maybe something off of an AE101?

I'd aim to make something that is as bolt on as possible, from what I can gather I would get away with only having to drill a hole on the exhaust and put a bung on for the O2 sensor. I reckon I would get away with just putting a T on the fuel tank where the pump would go, allowing for the return fuel to get back into the tank. I'm not sure what I would do regarding baffling in the tank or if this would even be a huge issue with this car. I don't really want to do anything like putting a surge tank in as this would probably require drilling holes in the car.

There are already mounting holes for a fuel pump assembly on the chassis of the car in front of the fuel tank.

 

Would this be worthwhile or pushing shit up hill?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/toyota/other/auction-1381833266.htm

 

I'd also like to do something such that it looks like factory and won't give me any issues come WoF time, I don't feel like forking out half a grand for a cert.

Don't go with the trade me option the flap mas air flow doors are arse. Unless you are happy for your car to run on dramas from the 1980's 

[ajg193]

I'd throw that bit out and just use the speeduino MAP sensor, I'd basically try and bring the system into the 21st century to some degree.

 

All in the hopes of hitting 4 L/100 km on normal driving and whatnot

[Ned]

I have the majority of some 7K EFI gear here if you want it... Would make a good starting point

[Yowzer]

Do the ignition as well. You'll regret it otherwise.

[yoeddynz]

What that ^ man said. Dont fuck around keeping a shitty old dizzy. Apart from obvious tuning benefits you'll have a much cleaner engine bay without a bloody ugly octopus sticking out from your block.

Plus it means you can do all the wiring at once and make a neat job of it.

Also I think we worked out previously that if you're careful you can build a speeduino for circa 100 bucks.

[kpr]

5 hours ago, kws said:

Checked crank sensor, i get some drag when running 1mm of feeler gauges between the sensor and wheel. Guess its where it should be, any closer and it'd probably touch.

should be able to go down to .5mm.    but if  you have solved the backfiring issue.  and it sees rpm  cleanly when cranking  should be ok.

[ajg193]

9 hours ago, Firetruck said:

Do the ignition as well. You'll regret it otherwise.

 

9 hours ago, yoeddynz said:

What that ^ man said. Dont fuck around keeping a shitty old dizzy. Apart from obvious tuning benefits you'll have a much cleaner engine bay without a bloody ugly octopus sticking out from your block.

Plus it means you can do all the wiring at once and make a neat job of it.

Also I think we worked out previously that if you're careful you can build a speeduino for circa 100 bucks.

Computer ignition can always be done at a later date, but as you know it would require installing a crank or cam angle sensor. This would also mean I would need more/new ignition coils.

I quite like the look of a 5 legged octopus.

I guess if push comes to shove, I could always lock the advance mechanisms in the distributor and modify the cap slightly so that the posts are a bit wider, this would allow me to fire the coil pretty much whenever I want and get fancy timing curves like that. But I would still need to bodge together some sort of cam/crank sensor.

 

I could be keen on building my own speeduino, I could alway duck down to the electrical department and swipe most of the required components.

[ajg193]

9 hours ago, Ned said:

I have the majority of some 7K EFI gear here if you want it... Would make a good starting point

What bits do you have?

I think the manifold wouldn't fit as the ports are a different shape compared to 4K.

Fuel pump stuff would be nice though.

[Ned]

i have no fuel pump stuff. Just buy a china pump

just get the 7K stuff and port the head for the bigger ports  or use some filler to taper the 7K manifold. Bet it will run much better than a carb any which way haha

[NickJ]

If you go down the speeduino route, get in touch, I sourced all the components off ali express where moq seemed to be 50 on everything......

 

[yoeddynz]

I shall be chatting to you at Hanmer then ...