peteretep Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 me and dave wrecked about 4 or 5 of these motors, the white metal bearings dont like doing donuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 most bike engine arn't designed to go on 4 wheeled vehicles - the sump runs dry too easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My name is Russell Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 most bike engine arn't designed to go on 4 wheeled vehicles - the sump runs dry too easily Hows that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 simplest way to explain it is if the motor is flat mounted and you go around a corner on 2 wheels the motor will lean over with the bike and g-forces will hold the oil in the bottom of the pan - on 4 wheels the motor will not lean over and g-forces will allow the oil to go up the side of the block - taking oil away from the pickup.. much more critical in a bike motor as there is less oil or so I believe this to be the case from the way it was explained to me a few years ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My name is Russell Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Oh yup yup so ya need some made baffles or dry sump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepers Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 simplest way to explain it is if the motor is flat mounted and you go around a corner on 2 wheels the motor will lean over with the bike and g-forces will hold the oil in the bottom of the pan - on 4 wheels the motor will not lean over and g-forces will allow the oil to go up the side of the block - taking oil away from the pickup.. much more critical in a bike motor as there is less oil or so I believe this to be the case from the way it was explained to me a few years ago.... i wonder about this.. ive never thought about it before but given how much effort it takes to keep a bike down during cornering it naturally follows that there is a large amount or force (centrifugal?) trying to push you (and the oil in your sump) back into the straight line that you came from. i reckon what you say is partially true KK, but i still reckon bikes get oil moving around in the sump to a large degree. i keep seeing that youtube video in my head about the test rig that Porsche built to subject an engine to the same G loads as a lap of the ring. that shit is fucking severe!! umm, car G's Vs bike G's? watch the video and tell me what you think? also, have been drinking to some extent.. but i doo have high and low beam headlights on all 4 as of tonight... sheepers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 simplest way to explain it is if the motor is flat mounted and you go around a corner on 2 wheels the motor will lean over with the bike and g-forces will hold the oil in the bottom of the pan - on 4 wheels the motor will not lean over and g-forces will allow the oil to go up the side of the block - taking oil away from the pickup.. much more critical in a bike motor as there is less oil or so I believe this to be the case from the way it was explained to me a few years ago.... i wonder about this.. ive never thought about it before but given how much effort it takes to keep a bike down during cornering it naturally follows that there is a large amount or force (centrifugal?) trying to push you (and the oil in your sump) back into the straight line that you came from. i reckon what you say is partially true KK, but i still reckon bikes get oil moving around in the sump to a large degree. i keep seeing that youtube video in my head about the test rig that Porsche built to subject an engine to the same G loads as a lap of the ring. that shit is fucking severe!! umm, car G's Vs bike G's? watch the video and tell me what you think? also, have been drinking to some extent.. but i doo have high and low beam headlights on all 4 as of tonight... sheepers? never heard of this just searched for it and found this - that is te secks.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_aaUtPCMw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Francis Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 i wonder about this.. ive never thought about it before but given how much effort it takes to keep a bike down during cornering it naturally follows that there is a large amount or force (centrifugal?) trying to push you (and the oil in your sump) back into the straight line that you came from. i reckon what you say is partially true KK, but i still reckon bikes get oil moving around in the sump to a large degree. when u lean around a corner there is centrifugal force pushing sideways(horizontal) and gravity(/weight...mass x gravity) pushing downways(vertical). The resultant force is like halfway between so the oil in the engine(and the tyres) are experiencing the resultant force which is like the same as if the bike was level with just gravity pushing downwards. edit: so(at speed) the centrifugal force is trying to push u back up straight and gravity is trying to push you down on the ground. Even each other out thats why once the bike/plane is leaned over real good it likes to stay that way and not level out or fall over. im no scientist but thats pretty much 100% correct thinking..maybe expressed in a less than scientific way lol . its the same with aeroplanes when you bank into a turn. Hence why you can run wet sump on planes and bikes without fucking the engine when you go around a corner or bank the plane into a turn. this is my understanding anyway. Thats what they teach you in pilot school and thats what i've read in a couple of old 1960's motorcycle tuning manuels In a car or whatever the vehicle is still level even when you are expeincing super hig centrifugal force going around a corner this is why you need baffles etc. Drysump is for rich. need drysump for going upside down cheapest way to make bike engines not run bearings in a car is to add a sump baffle plate. Same shit that heaps of dudes put in rotangs etc. costs like 5 bucks. lol'd at starlet guy not knowing why his hyabusa fucked its bottum end after a few special stages. sump baffles is the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Francis Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 edit this is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyabusa Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 lol'd at starlet guy not knowing why his hyabusa fucked its bottum end after a few special stages. yea i LOL'd at the time too, its halirious when stuff like this happens to other people who have tryed somthing a little out of the ordinary, worked through multiple challenges that arise from using the absolute maximum and somtimes more of what the car and engine were never designed to do. Those ''few special stages" were actually 40 or so laps of taupo's track 2, 3 laps of track 1, 20 laps of track 3. at a guess 1000km of gravel stages, a few hundred km of tarseal sprints and hillclimbs and the 16000km the bike had done before i bought it. me not knowing why it has done it and you being sure its just down to sump baffles is a pretty big assumption to make, i agree sump baffles when done right can only help the situation but in this case do you think the extra 500-600kg it was lugging around and the fact it was rearly pulling less than 7000rpm and mostly between 9000-11000rpm when being raced on the same bearings it was first put together with could aslo be a factor? if and when we get it going again it will more than likley be dry sumped but will also be pulled down a lot earlyer for a freshen up. please leave your details so i can get in touch if/when its going again and you will be more than welcome to come and see what its put through from the passenger seat, and the on going effort that goes into getting it to compete with 4wd turbo cars. i am also very interested in what interesting things you have done. sorry for posting this in here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toucan Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I have split this into a tech thread as it is interesting info. Keep it civil kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyBreeze Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Heard R1 motors dont need to be dry sumped because they are baffled well enough from factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteretep Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 me and dave put a gsx650 motor in the gokart and it would do mass donuts, it had roller bearings and ran perfectly whereas the 400's would run a bearing as soon as your even tried doing a donut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Saw an old BSA with sidecar today and thought of this thread, how does the sump theory apply to bikes with sidecars when cornering? (in particular sidecar racers, as the BSA wasn't generating many G's when going around the corner ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horse25 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 if this is of any interest to anyone, an escort with a bike engine http://www.stelectronics.no/situneweb/i ... =3&carid=1 http://www.situne.no/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escorto. Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Saw an old BSA with sidecar today and thought of this thread, how does the sump theory apply to bikes with sidecars when cornering? (in particular sidecar racers, as the BSA wasn't generating many G's when going around the corner ) Also new off road race quads. as they have the same engine as the 4 stroke mx bikes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepers Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 lol'd at starlet guy not knowing why his hyabusa fucked its bottum end after a few special stages. yea i LOL'd at the time too, its halirious when stuff like this happens to other people who have tryed somthing a little out of the ordinary, worked through multiple challenges that arise from using the absolute maximum and somtimes more of what the car and engine were never designed to do. Those ''few special stages" were actually 40 or so laps of taupo's track 2, 3 laps of track 1, 20 laps of track 3. at a guess 1000km of gravel stages, a few hundred km of tarseal sprints and hillclimbs and the 16000km the bike had done before i bought it. me not knowing why it has done it and you being sure its just down to sump baffles is a pretty big assumption to make, i agree sump baffles when done right can only help the situation but in this case do you think the extra 500-600kg it was lugging around and the fact it was rearly pulling less than 7000rpm and mostly between 9000-11000rpm when being raced on the same bearings it was first put together with could aslo be a factor? if and when we get it going again it will more than likley be dry sumped but will also be pulled down a lot earlyer for a freshen up. please leave your details so i can get in touch if/when its going again and you will be more than welcome to come and see what its put through from the passenger seat, and the on going effort that goes into getting it to compete with 4wd turbo cars. i am also very interested in what interesting things you have done. sorry for posting this in here. please pay no attention to tom, or black francis, no one else does. he has had a number of his logins banned for reasons various, but you could just put it down to the fact that hes a shit stirring no nothing. i, and just about everyone else on this forum, value the input of people who have actually tried something and learned from it. please keep us up to date on your new engine build, im very keen to see/hear your car at full noise! sheepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteretep Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 just thinking about it, i dont think that hyabusa motor crapped itself cos of lack of oil, it sounds more like it got a raping of a lifetime and maybe not enough care(i dont know how you treated it off the track) ie so much rpm and not enough oil changes etc, i imagine wear would happen alot quicker when revving to 11000, but do hayabusas have white metal bearings?(from memory they do) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyabusa Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 yea oil and filter were changed every couple of events (cost me a fortune) and every time it was still golden as it was drained out. they do have plain bearings, and are much like a normal car engine inside. if i had of pulled it down 1 event earlyer it would still be going now its as simple as that, you are 100% right it was just too much work for it for too long. and it did a shit load of work now that i think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.p.n.s Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 having had a lot of bikes in my life including a busa .2x 89 gsxr750 slingshot turbos and a 90 gsxr1100 turbo all running standard engines and the 1100 was over 290hp i personaly think they are perfect to put in a car. and ive had alot of friends that have put them in cars without any problems what so ever aprt from one that put a r1 motor in his mini and it shit itself after 3 weeks. but in saying that i took a 2001 brand new (when they were new)R1 for a test drive and it blew up. motors do brake no matter what they are (toyobusa) i take my hat of to you mate with what you have done to your little toyota hope you get it all back up and running. just my 2 cents guys dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.