Yowzer Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 involving removal of a modern production passenger vehicle’s factory-designed high-strength steel floor and cross-members, and replacing it with a sheet of lightweight non-structural aluminium sandwich panel, held in by panel glue, and with little or no form of mechanical attachment connecting the floor to the vehicle. I remember hearing about this actually. Bloody hell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 For example, UDM informed LVVTA that it had carried out a test consisting of nothing more than positioning a wheelchair on the floor with a person sitting in it. Yeah mate he didn't fall through the floor she'll be right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingbrick Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wow, that's very interesting Clint. I had heard rumors about the Skoda issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks for that Clint, really appreciate it. One thing I want to check with what you've said, I do have the ability to check the toe at my work on the alignment machine, but I don't have a load binder (although I could make one with a hydraulic jack. But also, I doubt my car has 50mm of positive and negative travel due to coilovers. Also, if I can get another alignment place in Rotorua to do bump steer measurements and printout on their Hunter alignment machine, can that be used instead of paying the additional fee or do the certifiers have to do their own check anyway? you could wind the spring adjuster down/whip the springs out to check yourself on your machine you could ask your certifier if he would accept that, but i doubt he would. i wouldnt, would be too easy to bullshit the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderwebfx Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 True. Another thought for getting the cert, if I could provide a workshop, with hoist and level ground in Auckland. Would you be interested in doing it? With all the help you've given me, if you've got the time and would like to do it, it's the least I could do. I'm guessing you're still mobile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Is there a max allowable bump steer measurement? or is is zero? LVVTA have said as a rough guide 10mm for a modern vehicle, 20mm for something old. dont ask me what the cutoff point is though,haha #ismycaroldschool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hi Clint, Am at final stages of modifications and am building drive-shaft loop. I have a wee dilema. Both my exhaust and driveshaft live in the trans tunnel. I can't move the exhaust. So i have thought of some options below, all of which involve the loop on an angle. Would any of these options be suitable? Cheers Joe Another option, which may not be valid, is that according to the LVVTA documentation here i can't find any criteria that would require my car to have a driveshaft loop. (Its an l28 on webers and nowhere near 50% increase in power) so i could not fit one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yeh the wording threw me on when you do and dont need a hoop. Im in the same boat (ie a12 to a15 is about 60 to 80hp so not sure that would be classed as "significant"). But ive put one in lol. Still interested to see what the official answer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Pretty sure any engine change requires a loop regardless of power increase. I think carb to EFI, or even a cylinder head change (4AFE to 4AGE for example) also requires loops, again regardless of power increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hey Joe, what about attaching the hoop to the walls of the tunnel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japawagons Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Pretty sure any engine change requires a loop regardless of power increase. I think carb to EFI, or even a cylinder head change (4AFE to 4AGE for example) also requires loops, again regardless of power increase. Not so sure of that YowYow. Need Cletus to confirm but I'm still sure its related to significant power increase or driveshaft modification... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Aaaaaahhhh here we go A drive‐shaft safety‐loop must be fitted to a low volume vehicle with an open drive‐line, in the case of either: (a) any custom chassis in a rear‐drive front‐engine low volume vehicle; or ( any modified production chassis in a rear‐drive front engine low volume vehicle, where: (i) the vehicle has had an engine conversion that has resulted in a significant increase in power or torque; or (ii) the vehicle has had its factory‐fitted engine significantly modified, such that a significant increase in power or torque has resulted; or (iii) the drive‐shaft fitted to the vehicle has been modified by welding. Definition of significant increase in power or torque: A significant increase in power or torque in a low volume vehicle is considered to be over 50% of the vehicle’s factory power output. This is supported by section 2.4(2)( of the braking standard which requires that any scratch‐built vehicle or modified production low volume vehicle which has attained an increase in engine power output from the original vehicle manufacturer’s specifications of over 50% requires a 5 cycle brake test. The exception to this 50% threshold is a vehicle which has had a turbocharger, supercharger or nitrous system fitted; – due to the potential for further performance increase with a forced induction system, such vehicles must have a driveshaft safety loop fitted even if it can be shown to have resulted in less than 50% increase. Turbo and Supercharged vehicles: The addition of a turbocharger, supercharger, or nitrous system to any vehicle undergoing LVV certification automatically requires that a drive‐shaft safety loop is fitted. This is due to the potential for further performance increase with a forced induction system. Such vehicles must have a drive‐shaft safety loop fitted even if it can be shown to have had a less than 50% increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So ignore my first post. It was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japawagons Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Im pretty sure that's you telling me I'm right... Thank you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Although it has just occurred to me that that information could be three years out of date as the page was dated December 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 THats true. That documentation pretty clearly says i don't need one. But if its out of date then ah well. But, say i do have to have one. Can the loop be mounted on an angle? I'm not sure it can be mounted to sides of tunnel as there is handbrake mechanism and fuel lines on side of tunnel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japawagons Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Was that off the LVVTA site? Only gets updated when its amended... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Its linked in my first post. Was from the tech thread FAQ. A link to a PDF onLVVTA site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Bro just ring/email Andy and ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japawagons Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 THats true. That documentation pretty clearly says i don't need one. But if its out of date then ah well. But, say i do have to have one. Can the loop be mounted on an angle? I'm not sure it can be mounted to sides of tunnel as there is handbrake mechanism and fuel lines on side of tunnel... It only needs to contain the driveshaft within a 360 degree loop made out of the minimum material 50x5mm within 200mm of the center of the universal. Pretty sure if you do that your good. O think I exhaust being inside it etc is fine. Also needs the reinforcement plates 300mm2??? 50x60mm whatever that is. Can't have compressible material underneath e.g sounddeadening and needs min 10mm bolts... Does that sound right peeps?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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