Mitchs is never going to finish 2zz Ke70 race car build discussion

[Mitch.W]

talk me into not finishing this project 

 

[shrike]

Going with a stock 2zz? Or doing some tweaks? 

Curious to see how the 2zz goes in rwd few newer options around now, esp after seeing @Romanresults with his 1nz 

2AR have been popular in MR2 etc

I'd love to see the newer corolla M20A-FKB engines in one of these but the 14:1 M20A-FXS would be interesting (might be a bottom end swap sort of thing) direct injection, my partners corolla gets like 4L per 100km

 B1600 diff is an interesting option drum brake or is there a disc brake option. How heavy are they compared to the factory diff?

[Roman]

Shrike thats all great and everything, but...

Have you considered a 2ZZ?

[Mitch.W]

23 minutes ago, shrike said:

Going with a stock 2zz? Or doing some tweaks? 

Curious to see how the 2zz goes in rwd few newer options around now, esp after seeing @Romanresults with his 1nz 

2AR have been popular in MR2 etc

I'd love to see the newer corolla M20A-FKB engines in one of these but the 14:1 M20A-FXS would be interesting (might be a bottom end swap sort of thing) direct injection, my partners corolla gets like 4L per 100km

 B1600 diff is an interesting option drum brake or is there a disc brake option. How heavy are they compared to the factory diff?

It will just be a stock 2zz with equal length headers and either blacktop 20v or s65 itb’s. 
Would like to get a spare head to do some cams and porting later down the track but main focus is get it running and driving. 
 

Yeah the 2zz has some good potential I feel quite popular in Jamaica and some other countries in fwd corollas making good power. 

there is a lot of cool modern motor with small displacement that make realllly good power that would be cool to do, I friend showed me the Honda L15 the other day which looks super cool. 

b1600 diff use to be commonly used, I’ve got caliper brackets to run s13 Silvia discs and Nissan pulsar calipers so isn’t too hard to make that work. 

[RUNAMUCK]

The 2zz is what 180-200hp?

Thats fucking plenty for such a light car. It will be an absolute pleasure to bash around at that power level. Plus toyota reliability means more time manging, less time fixing stuff that has given up because too much was asked of it. 

Hypothetically, what are the s13 front stuff worth? I one million percent shouldnt be buying parts for my wagon. But, when things come up......

[Mitch.W]

19 minutes ago, RUNAMUCK said:

The 2zz is what 180-200hp?

Thats fucking plenty for such a light car. It will be an absolute pleasure to bash around at that power level. Plus toyota reliability means more time manging, less time fixing stuff that has given up because too much was asked of it. 

Hypothetically, what are the s13 front stuff worth? I one million percent shouldnt be buying parts for my wagon. But, when things come up......

Yeah they seem to make around 140kw in stock used form at the wheels which is plenty! I’m use to a stock 16v 4age so it will be heaps. 
 

afew things I seems with the 2zz is upgrade oil pump gears as they like to explode and valve springs. 
 
you don’t want the s13 stuff. It’s terrible for handling on ke/ae cars 

[GARDRB]

I've always wanted a 2ZZ but never been able to get over the buy-in on one. When I got my 1uz for my Corolla a 2ZZ was more expensive. 

Also agree with ditching the S13 stuff. It's trash in a Corolla

[Mitch.W]

15 minutes ago, GARDRB said:

I've always wanted a 2ZZ but never been able to get over the buy-in on one. When I got my 1uz for my Corolla a 2ZZ was more expensive. 

Also agree with ditching the S13 stuff. It's trash in a Corolla

I’m still yet to grab one, missed out on a celica at turners that sold for 1k, wreckers seem to want 2k for a motor. Must have come down in price now. 

[GARDRB]

I've been watching them for about 10 years, 2k seems about where they've always stayed. A Runx or Feilder might be a good way to get one and then part out the whole car.

[Roman]

Sidetrack to your build and sorry/not sorry. 

But the biggest tragedy with the 2ZZ was that they made the 1ZZ and 2ZZ completely different engines.
They were trying to make a competitor to the B18C but totally missed the point in that regard.
Like how good is the B18C, on account of that even the peasant versions can be awesome, with just different cams and so on. 
Can you imagine if every single turd car out there with a 1ZZ, had 2ZZ potential? Would be incredible! 
But instead we have zillions of 1ZZ turds and very few of the cool motors around.
 

[lownslow]

When I had my 1974 B1600, I used a higher ratio 90s Ford Courier diff head in it. Bolted straight into the B1600 housing, just had to swap the swap the yoke over to suit the driveshaft. Pretty sure they came in LSD options as well.

[Rhyscar]

Keen to see some progress on this. Love the philosophy with starting with something not too nice. shell looks pretty good. 

 

How does the J160 gearing work with the 4.9 diff? It'll be interesting to see what the torque sits with a decent 2zz. Seeing as you've potentially got up to 9000 rpms, you may need a higher diff ratio? (depending on tyre size too!) You may have already worked that out. Typically the toyota 6 speed boxes are quite long in the gearing. 

[Mitch.W]

Yeah I didn’t intend on using a rough shell but it’s what was available at the time. 
 

I haven’t don’t any driveline calcs yet but it should work good and I’m hoping 4.9 makes it work out good. Will be a 13” with 185/60 or a 14” with 185/50. Undecided what wheels I’m going to run yet. When I built my starlet it was 4.9 with a t50 and 13” trs slicks it was 175kph at 7500rpm which was perfect for manfeild. 
 

I can get stock lsd’s from the utes but hoping to get a plate type lsd for it. 

[Mitch.W]

52 minutes ago, Roman said:

Sidetrack to your build and sorry/not sorry. 

But the biggest tragedy with the 2ZZ was that they made the 1ZZ and 2ZZ completely different engines.
They were trying to make a competitor to the B18C but totally missed the point in that regard.
Like how good is the B18C, on account of that even the peasant versions can be awesome, with just different cams and so on. 
Can you imagine if every single turd car out there with a 1ZZ, had 2ZZ potential? Would be incredible! 
But instead we have zillions of 1ZZ turds and very few of the cool motors around.
 

The most frustrating thing about them it would be so cool if they had changed bore and stroke to make it work

[Truenotch]

4.9 will be relatively short with 13" slicks. Ruapuna's straight is long - @Hyperblade can probably chime in here with the Starlet's diff ratio, RPM and 6th gear ratio to give you a better idea. 

[Mitch.W]

1 hour ago, Truenotch said:

4.9 will be relatively short with 13" slicks. Ruapuna's straight is long - @Hyperblade can probably chime in here with the Starlet's diff ratio, RPM and 6th gear ratio to give you a better idea. 

4.9 will be great for drifting though…

would love to have a easy setup that works for grip and drift, I can get 2 different sets of front knuckles so that makes changing the alignment easy. Just always so tempted to run trs slicks but that requires big guards which makes it hard to make cool wheels fit for drifting 

[Truenotch]

Here's the info you need from @Hyperblade's thread. J160 with TRS slicks looks like it'll be OK as long as you rev it to 9000. 

[Hyperblade]

18 hours ago, Mitch.W said:

4.9 will be great for drifting though…

would love to have a easy setup that works for grip and drift, I can get 2 different sets of front knuckles so that makes changing the alignment easy. Just always so tempted to run trs slicks but that requires big guards which makes it hard to make cool wheels fit for drifting 

 

19 hours ago, Truenotch said:

4.9 will be relatively short with 13" slicks. Ruapuna's straight is long - @Hyperblade can probably chime in here with the Starlet's diff ratio, RPM and 6th gear ratio to give you a better idea. 

So the only TRS tyres you can still get secondhand from the series are the old rears, (now the new fronts) which need 10" wide rim, so most cars require substantial modification to run them. Those charts were based off the smaller TRS slicks that runs on 8" wide wheels. so you need to think carefully about what tyres your going to run, it may be that 15" might be the more economical option (even though I don't like the look of them on old cars)

For grip, you will be wanting to aim for 185 - 200kph at the end of the straight which should be doable with your weight and power.

I went with 2nd-6th gears which meant launching in 2nd and using 3rd for hairpin 4-5 everywhere else then 6th for straight. 

But the alternative (and much nicer if you street drive) is to use 1-5th which can be beneficial for N/A cars as not using overdrive 6th.

Here's some diff/speeds (based on 54cm trs tyres) to give you an idea of where it would sit

 

You have lots of revs available which gives you a few options (let me know if you want me to calculate any other options).

 

 

[Rhyscar]

Oh man with 9000rpms that will work out perfect! 13" wheels FTW. With 17's I need to go for a 5.3 diff!

[Mitch.W]

4 hours ago, Hyperblade said:

 

So the only TRS tyres you can still get secondhand from the series are the old rears, (now the new fronts) which need 10" wide rim, so most cars require substantial modification to run them. Those charts were based off the smaller TRS slicks that runs on 8" wide wheels. so you need to think carefully about what tyres your going to run, it may be that 15" might be the more economical option (even though I don't like the look of them on old cars)

For grip, you will be wanting to aim for 185 - 200kph at the end of the straight which should be doable with your weight and power.

I went with 2nd-6th gears which meant launching in 2nd and using 3rd for hairpin 4-5 everywhere else then 6th for straight. 

But the alternative (and much nicer if you street drive) is to use 1-5th which can be beneficial for N/A cars as not using overdrive 6th.

Here's some diff/speeds (based on 54cm trs tyres) to give you an idea of where it would sit

 

You have lots of revs available which gives you a few options (let me know if you want me to calculate any other options).

 

 

Yeah that works out great, I will most probably start with using 185/60/13 semi slicks all round for now, means I can keep it stock body and until I decide what o want to do. Deff don’t want to end up running 10” wheels, you can still buy 200/540/13 tires brand new for not bad money which is an option later down the track.