sump modifying

[Requiemk]

So i need to make a new sump for car and just wondering about oil flow/amount is in circulation while engine is running.

New sump design has a flat bottom to in with no hump as such for oil to naturally flow to, it will hold and extra litre or 2 by design thou.

any thoughts on this?

[Yowzer]

Main thing is to ensure oil cannot flow away from the pickup under cornering / braking / acceleration

Otherwise, as long as it's not gonna get smashed on the road, it'll be sweet

[KKtrips]

Sounds to me like a baffle or trapdoor setup would be wise - allow 6-8mm clearance from the pickup screen to the sump.

[Gaz]

Should be sweet boe.

Things to keep in mind are the angle which the sump sits on when in car, oil pickup and bracing of it, and warpage. If you have a spare block then do any welds/grinding with sump bolted to block.

Gaz

[Simon]

Providing you modify the pickup or build it to the height of the pickup it will be great.

Make sure you incorporate some sort of baffle like a factory one.

Sometimes if you put big wings on it the oil likes to go there instead of your pickup on long corners.

The extra capacity is no problem / is better. Maybe just ease it for a bit longer when cold to let most of the oil get up to temp but I'm sure you wouldn't thrash from cold anyway.

Fake edit : beaten.

[Simon]

This forums so cash.

How many others can you post a question at 11pm on a Sunday and get 4 answers within minutes.

[Requiemk]

Oh sweet, this way i wont have to modify the pick up as it suits where it used to sit.

Yep dummy engine all in, baffles and trapdoor set-up is part of the plan.

cheers kk that sounds like a good spec to use haha

[isnowi]

FYI, if you are planning on using the old sump and welding new bits too it, no matter how clean you think it is there will still be oil residue that stuffs your welds up, that and i'm told that the steel they use to make sumps is particularly plastic and thus doesn't weld too easily in the first place. (this bit could be all lies, but it was told to me by someone who should know)

Maybe acid dip or caustic wash will clean all the oil.

otherwise starting from scratch might make it better in the end.

[85_z31]

Here is a Sump the guys in the USA build for a VG30ET in an old z31 300zx, anyways you get the idea

Heaps more capacity

and it has the trap door which holds the oil next to the pickup

as far as welding goes for a steel sump Get it hot tanked and it will weld fine, a decent welded will actually tell you go back and clean it again if he wants to do a proper job on it.

Its the cast alloy sumps that will cause problems when welding, alloy is a bitch to weld anyway and if its got residue it just wont weld properly.

[Gaz]

Also test with oil rather than water as it seems to seep through differant.

Gaz

[R100]

Also when testing with oil. leave it to soak over night. Thinners mixed with oil can also show up fine cracks in the welds. Not thinners on its own though as it will dry up on the real fine cracks if left over night.

[Roman]

Just a thought.

Why do people modify sumps anyway?

Because the G forces move the oil away from the oil pickup.

Why hasnt anyone tried just making a pickup that swivels or is flexible or something, that just moves with the G forces too? That way it will just always go where the oil is.

Surely easier than trying to keep a sloshing liquid in one particular place.

Also with trapdoors.

I remember someone telling me that a certain type of porsche or something has factory hinged flaps on the sump..

but instead of a metal trapdoor, it was a flap of silicon that was riveted at the top, that was slightly larger than the hole that it surrounded.

Oil pushing on it one way forced it against the wall, blocking flow... oil coming the other way just made it bend out of the way, and let the oil in. Simple solution that works well with no hinges or anything required.

[Yowzer]

Rubber hose to end of pickup?

Anything stiff enough to not cave in on suction would be too stiff to flex sufficiently I'd imagine

[Roman]

Most pickups seem to be offset in one direction from where they attach to the block.

So even if you just had a swivel section that allowed it to rotate 360 degrees on a horizontal plane, would pick up oil better than having it in a stationary position.

But yeah, some sort of braided hose or something that wouldnt cave in I guess.

Havent given it too much thought yet.

[Simon]

Thats a good idea. A lot more complicated than having trap doors though.

And then it could fall off.

The hinge idea is pretty sweet if you have the time to build it. Nothing to go wrong.

Ill be modding my sump to tuck it further up and away from the road.

Won't be doing flash trap doors though. Only necessary on a hard out race car. Just a nice baffle set up.

[R100]

You dont even need baffels if its just a street driven car. I personally have never put baffels in any of my dozens of custom sumps and never had a problem. Drag or race car. Thats a different story.

[Testament]

depends on the factory sump some are quite good even for race spec, others are useless even for a quick road car. e.g. on the fiat lancia twin cam motor lancia betas have awful sumps that are just an open bowl and the oil goes anywhere it likes, but the the fiat 105TC/130TC and lancia delta are pretty good sumps. all fwd transverse setups, but just different pickup and static baffling inside for the most part.

The moving pickup i have heard of but it is something to go wrong on a critical part of the engine so I would prefer a static baffle setup maybe with trapdoors over a moving pickup.

As a minimum for a flat bottomed sump you should have a circular baffle around the pickup really just to help keep the oil directly around the baffle there for longer and avoid sudden loss of oil.

[keltik]

So even if you just had a swivel section that allowed it to rotate 360 degrees on a horizontal plane, would pick up oil better than having it in a stationary position..

Mate is currently working on this for a new sump in his EZ30 powered WRX. The sump is kind of built into the crank case so a traditional baffled setup wont work. He's been having a hard time finding a joint for the pickup which will allow it to swivel freely enough without allowing air in.

[Yowzer]

depends on the factory sump some are quite good even for race spec, others are useless even for a quick road car. e.g. on the fiat lancia twin cam motor lancia betas have awful sumps that are just an open bowl and the oil goes anywhere it likes, but the the fiat 105TC/130TC and lancia delta are pretty good sumps. all fwd transverse setups, but just different pickup and static baffling inside for the most part.

The moving pickup i have heard of but it is something to go wrong on a critical part of the engine so I would prefer a static baffle setup maybe with trapdoors over a moving pickup.

As a minimum for a flat bottomed sump you should have a circular baffle around the pickup really just to help keep the oil directly around the baffle there for longer and avoid sudden loss of oil.

Criz sump has a mean as slope to fit the crossmember, with minimal baffles, so under heavy braking all the oil goes bye bye up the front of the block.

Gonna wack some kinda trapdoor setup in it I think

[Requiemk]

cheers boys sump all made, will post some pics up in a few days

i ended up migging it, didn't turn out to bad.