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36 minutes ago, kseries.rookie said:

Hypothetical question and possibly covered before so apologies if it has..

Car goes for WOF, fails on needing cert for.. I dunno, lets say coil overs because thats topical.
Does this mean the car MUST get a cert to proceed to WOF status or can the suspension be changed to OEM and all good to go for a re check

Correct. 

You are not tied to cert items unless the car has a cert. 

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Everything. 

Front, back, both sides, interior,  engine bay and any visible mods under the car is the requirements for photos the certifier has to supply with the paperwork 

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1 hour ago, cletus said:

Everything. 

Front, back, both sides, interior,  engine bay and any visible mods under the car is the requirements for photos the certifier has to supply with the paperwork 

For fun I scanned a donut on a new build at the BH using an NFC app on my phone. Came up with a link which worked at the time to show all the photos, but the link did stop working a few hours later.

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I had my leaf springs reset by A.Auckland leaf spring repairs however I've noticed when in van and back on ground they become inverted. Is this an issue? Do the same 40mm droop rules apply to a van that often has 250kg extra in the rear also?

Screenshot_20210406-183307_Gallery.jpg

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People tend to add another leaf when getting them reset. Inverted is just bad in general. Old mans ute had stock suspension inverted with his box on the back (most likely roll like this with no clue). He had another leaf put in and all sorted.

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Funnily, theres nothing in the rules that say they cant be inverted.

 

but it's not ideal, the spring and shackle start working against each other.

usually if someone wants to go past 'flat' then you get the eyes reversed instead of making the spring go the wrong way  

And as @Bling said add a leaf to make up for the reduced travel 

 

Yes on the 40mm droop requirements, same rules apply 

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Imagine how well it would handle with operating suspension then. Inverted leaf springs to me would be the equivalent of bound coil springs. This theory could be wrong, but I can't see how inverting leaf springs actually offer any form of good suspension. flipside to that, is you often can't go silly low and have working springs, so it is a balancing act between looks and handling nice.

As for the legality, I was quite surprised that inverted leaf springs are not a WOF issue. Work ute had passed previously no worries. Only had the extra spring fit by choice. I bet it handled a lot nicer afterwards though (not my vehicle).

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1 minute ago, Bling said:

Imagine how well it would handle with operating suspension then. Inverted leaf springs to me would be the equivalent of bound coil springs. This theory could be wrong, but I can't see how inverting leaf springs actually offer any form of good suspension. flipside to that, is you often can't go silly low and have working springs, so it is a balancing act between looks and handling nice.

As for the legality, I was quite surprised that inverted leaf springs are not a WOF issue. Work ute had passed previously no worries. Only had the extra spring fit by choice. I bet it handled a lot nicer afterwards though (not my vehicle).

So long as there is clearance to the bump stops and the shackles still have pivot room it should still 'suspend' OK.

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The Hilux we had at work in the early '00s was so shagged the front leaf springs bent the wrong way. It wallowed like a pig and was generally terrible to drive but everyone in the office knew that and drove it accordingly. It still got wofs but maybe it shouldn't have?

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Just watch if you get them reset, I had a set done and they went to hundy on them and fuck me they were stiff, could put 500kg on the back and they would hardly move. I did the usual and got them done but didn't finish the project for a while later and when I realised they were to meke I called them up but they didn't want to know

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30 minutes ago, Nominal said:

So long as there is clearance to the bump stops and the shackles still have pivot room it should still 'suspend' OK.

Ignoring setups like my work van that is single leaf. How do you think multi leaf setups are affected though when the stack is no longer acting in the way it's supposed to? Just seems like bad design to me if the loading is such that the springs are no longer working as designed. Unless of course they are designed to work inverted, but i'm not sure anyone would design for that. Depending on the spring stack layout, i'd think most would all be compressed and not able to function correctly. The van phones shown about would have the bottom spring not acting when needed, but completely compressed along it's length against the springs above it. Hitting a bump has to act on something other than the spring pack as they are all jammed together.

I don't have leaf springs, but always up for learning.

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2 minutes ago, Bling said:

Ignoring setups like my work van that is single leaf. How do you think multi leaf setups are affected though when the stack is no longer acting in the way it's supposed to? Just seems like bad design to me if the loading is such that the springs are no longer working as designed. Unless of course they are designed to work inverted, but i'm not sure anyone would design for that. Depending on the spring stack layout, i'd think most would all be compressed and not able to function correctly. The van phones shown about would have the bottom spring not acting when needed, but completely compressed along it's length against the springs above it. Hitting a bump has to act on something other than the spring pack as they are all jammed together.

I don't have leaf springs, but always up for learning.

The steel will still bend I guess?

When mine got to that state I airbagged the car :)

 

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It's one of those things that "works", but is not ideal. 

A normal leaf spring gets longer as it compresses which pushes the shackle away from the leaf, and the spring eye at the shackle end gets closer to the chassis. 

When a spring is inverted, as it compresses,  it gets shorter, which pulls the shackle straighter, which wants to push the spring eye back down away from the chassis,  opposite to where the spring wants to go  

 I dont know how much actual difference this makes to how a car drives or whether you can feel the difference, I guess you would need to do some proper back to back testing to ever know. But I doubt anyone would ever bother because someone who is happy to run a leaf spring inverted , is probably only concerned with how they can get a vehicle low, as easily as possible, not make it handle well   

No factory vehicle , performance or otherwise, has leaf springs that are inverted as far as I know  

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Also the spring design plays a big part in how something rides, especially when someone resets them 

Ie a lot of commercial van or ute type vehicles have a dual rate leaf pack where there is 2 or 3 thinner springs, and 1 or two thicker springs like the van ones earlier in the thread. Unloaded, the suspension is just using the softer thinner leafs, then when you load it up, they sit down on top of the thicker "overload" leafs  

If you reset them and the main soft springs are then sitting on the overload springs, that makes it really stiff , same if they are reset higher and the overload leafs are sitting against the main leaf 

Most car springs just have a pack of the same thickness leafs 

 

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I should be clear, "inverted" in this discussion is relating to leaf springs with a curve going the wrong way, not flipped, ie upside down,  that is 100% not legal

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