jakesae101 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 so the 4agze in the trueno is as far tweaked as it can go on the standard i/c setup. so in hopes of making more power im going to change to a small front mount with short 2inch piping. and run water injection in the hope to run a bit more advance and have cooler inlet temps . currently runs 15psi standard top mount and a fuel controller and makes over 120kw as is anyone used water injection before what were your experiences ? and before anyone says it yes i know a aftermarket ecu would be the go but im far to jew with my moneys to fork out for it (lets face it who isnt here ) i have made not bad power with my fuel controller up untill now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 have ran it before. wouldn't bother again. helps a litte bit, but just something else to go wrong. and a decent setup isnt cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicT Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 have seen big boosting unmodified 13b running huge numbers with water/meth injection (over 300kw) in a zoom magazine article. However have read a blog of a bonnieville drag motorcycle that runs water injection on there setup and they rust the injectors and valves regularly, so daily i cant imagine the damage it could cause. With water injection you would want a way to trigger it so it only came on on-boost, controlling that cheaply and paying for the setup would be the same price for a microsquirt, and a wideband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 not really the stage one kit comes with a adjustable boost switch so you can get it to come on whenever really . never heard of it damaging internals of a engine tbh its such a fine mist of water that it atomises like fuel into the combustion chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 thing is you wont really gain anything, from it just dumping some water in. other than some in cylinder cooling. adding water on octane limited engine, you maybe able to advance the timing, to get a little more out of it. but if water runs out, blocked jet etc.. after you have advanced the timing = knock knock. has its place, but i wouldn't run it all the time on a road car. another thing i found was when running a jet in the intercooler pipes, water would fall out of suspension when it hit the plenum and pool in the bottom. gonna depend on plenum design tho. i ran a port injection setup in the end. ran leanish 12.5:1 fuel ratio and used the water for in cylinder cooling. seemed to work well, but have no proof or any gains/losses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 its not really a road car anymore its road reg but never gets used on the road , i had looked at a port injection setup and think i could squeeze it in i just want to lower charge temps as well as some anti detonation protection as the supercharger makes the charge air bloody hot. was considering a pre supercharger nozzle to help cool the rotors of the supercharger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pusherman Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 very wise man told me get a hypodernic needle stick it in your silicone pipe/joiner/bend run a hose and supply just enuf water for a slowish drip. the shape of needle and hole will get vaporised just needs to be facing the right way. yet to try but the dude isnt a try hard he knows his shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 slow drip wont do much. you can fire a shitload of water into an engine. i forget the numbers now. has been few years since ive played with it port injection + pre supercharger, is what id be trying. if you're using it on the track, going to need a fairly big water tank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 slow drip wont do much. you can fire a shitload of water into an engine. i forget the numbers now. Yeah, you won't be able to force it out the needle fast enough. Think dad was using like 2L a min on the dyno with his carb+t subi leone. They ended up not using water because you had to carry 50L of water where ever you went. I guess with a link etc you could meter it all according to ignition timing etc. You need another ecu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 my mate who uses it on the orange ae82 fxgt in targa recons he uses only 5 litres between service parks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 the only other issue i can forsee is that if i run direct port and pre supercharger it woul strain the pump too much trying to supply that many sprayers. i was think ether triggering it at over 5,000rpm or over 10psi boost pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Tee Bee Aych, you'd be better off telling your SC12/14 to fuck the hell off and run a more efficient supercharger. Unfortunately I can't find a map for them to show how shit it'll be running at 15psi, but you are definitely pushing it well out of its comfort zone. The screw type supercharger found on those Mazda thingies would be a much more suitable unit. Still 1.2L/rev, but are a hell of a lot more efficient at those pressure levels. Less heat, and less engine power wasted on spinning it = more power at teh weelz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 what pump/ system are you planing on running? port nozzles will have to be pretty small to start with anyway. then run a bit bigger single for the s/c. unless you use some girly little pump, i would think you'd be pumping in too much water before you'd run out of flow. also you could run it staged so port and sc jets come on at different times. you'd want it coming on with load rather than rpm. so boost switched would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 the sureflow pump its a aquamist kit the .pulley i run spins the sc at max rmp its capable of at redline its a custom jobbie bigger than anything off the shelf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Here is a very worthwhile link. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html Lots of info there, but their kits are mega expensive. You can get the parts to build your own kit much cheaper off ebay. I did find a link somewhere to a site where you could buy the parts quite cheap, but I can't find it atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakesae101 Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 tis about 370 for a "stage one kit" that comes with 1 nozzle a check valve pressure switch pump relays and t pieces connectors ec not bad value couldn't come up with a cheaper one off ebay i did look into buying the kit of ebay the dude on trade me sells and i couldn't get it any cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 ive still got all my stuff. was going to keep it for another car, but will probably never use it. sureflow pump, nozzles, check valves, etc.. even have a dc motor controller to adjust pump speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 The Coolingmist pumps are high pressure, and their seals are designed to cope with the presence of methanol on the media being injected. Methanol is real good at fucking inferior types of rubber. The secret to a good system is having a high pressure pump. Then it can be injected post compressor, and nice and close to the port. (Less distance traveled means less of the droplets can dropmout of suspention. The nother plus of higher delivery pressures is that the atomiser nozzle(s) can create finer droplets. The finer the droplets, (And the more of them there are) the better the heat soaking effect (And therefore the dentonation suppressing effect) will be. Here is their website http://www.coolingmist.com/ When I get an elusive round tuit, I'm going to buy some of the parts for a kit off that coolingmist mob. Then I'll source the rest of what I need locally. The RSR webiste reckons that an engine needs 170cc per minute to suport 300HP. Using that number as a baseline, it wouldn't be hard to work out how many cc's an engine would need for a given power figure. But rather than one nozzle for the whole kit, I'd make my own nozzles, and use the jets from a nitrous oxide injection nozzle as the metering orifaces. Then I'm just going to do a simple test where I'd sit a beaker on a digital scale, and see how many grams of water a given oriface could pass per minute. Times that by 4. Then set up one nozzle/jet per cylinder, with the jets pointing directly at the port. (Either with a mounting boss TIG'd into the opposite wall of the plenium chamber, or into the side of the runner wall, depending on the manifold/runner configuration. The only real area that I can see where an error might occour, would be that with the nozzles passing their media into the beaker on the scale, they may pass slightly more liquid, than when they're injecting into the plenium/runner which may have an atmoshere of say 14.7-20+ PSI. That said also, with pump pressures getting up into the 200psi range with their pumps, A few extra CC's in the jetting baseline should be enough to more than adequately compensate. Plus as 50% of whats being injected will basicly be a fuel source, (methanol) the tiny bit of xtra enrichment shouldn't any hard at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barf Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 a wideband oxygen sensor is very useful (innovate lc-1 is USD$200) if you're all curly-locks about ecu price get a Megasquirt (ms2/extra) it has programmable outputs you can use for things like boost control, water/nitrogen oxide control, etc you can run it either as an ON/OFF (pump type) system triggered by a manifold pressure level, or use injector(s) and another VE table to inject an amount of water as a function of RPM and MAP. found some links about water injection with megasquirt here: http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mturbo.htm#water http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=36688 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Don't SC12's start to fall apart at 16-18PSI anyway? Wouldn't want to be creating too much more heat than 15psi's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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