NaN Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hey guys, Just a few thoughts I was wondering if anyone can answer for me ? I get why no2 is used, but is there any reason why we cant use o2 instead ? Can we also inject/release fuel gases to suppliment gasoline ? say acetylene or hydrogen, something to top up the combustable fuel levels and yet cool the intake charge at the same time. I'm not saying all the time, just sometimes. Does anyone know of a ecu that will control 16 injectors in fully Sequential form (or paired is ok) at the same time as reading and adapting to 8 EGT's - I'm thinking I can get some measure of safety control (engine) by asking/getting the ecu to injector more or less fuel, some or non o2 gas or some or none gas fuel or some or none water, to cool a particular cyclinder under extremely high loads, under boost perhaps like .. 45psi for 35sec's And, the real reason for the question, I'm designing my intake manifold at the moment, .... Should I run my gas injection in the intake manifold after the throttle body (I'm running itb's btw) or should I inject gas (whatever it is) into the intake plentum or perhaps aim nozzles into the itb's in the intake actually inside the intake plentum. thoughts anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Not sure about the later stuff. But air is like 80% Nitrogen which is inert by it's self. If you were to use hundred percent oxygen you would result in piston smashing explosions and your motor would probably split in half. Search for liquid oxygen explosions. I'm sure you could benefit from injecting more though. Motec will go to 24 injector drives. I'm not sure if they will do them all fully sequential. Probably not. I guess you're trying to make a shit tonne of power? Is running meth an option? I don't really know much about that but I know it's been done over and over so there is info around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaN Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Not sure about the later stuff.But air is like 80% Nitrogen which is inert by it's self. If you were to use hundred percent oxygen you would result in piston smashing explosions and your motor would probably split in half. Search for liquid oxygen explosions. I guess that would depend on how much o2 there was, I'm already going to run a turbo so 100% o2 would be impossible, but I was thinking I might be able to reduce the intake volume by increasing the o2 levels a bit (like 2-5%) I'm sure you could benefit from injecting more though. yeah I was thinking the same. Motec will go to 24 injector drives. I'm not sure if they will do them all fully sequential. Probably not. ya know they are like 8k plus though aye ? I guess you're trying to make a shit tonne of power? normally just 400-500hp, but bursts of 1500hp would be nice, with a normal upper limit of 800hp Is running meth an option? I don't really know much about that but I know it's been done over and over so there is info around. Well, I'll be running 91 pump on the primary fuel system, and 98 or c15 or perhaps meth, in the secondary fuel system to assist with octane demands of boosted engine. Considering nos and such as well, since I'm designing the lower manifold to take the itb's at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I read somewhere why pure O2 is not used, but can't remember all the details. One of which though was that it is stored at a much higher pressure than N2O, and it will freeze everything when you try and inject it into the engine. Another concern was safety. N2O only breaks apart into N2 and O2 under high temperatures, so it is mostly harmless should you pop a leak. O2 however will make things very fucking flammable if you spring a leak somewhere. There were more reasons too, but meh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaN Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 I read somewhere why pure O2 is not used, but can't remember all the details. One of which though was that it is stored at a much higher pressure than N2O, and it will freeze everything when you try and inject it into the engine. Another concern was safety. N2O only breaks apart into N2 and O2 under high temperatures, so it is mostly harmless should you pop a leak. O2 however will make things very fucking flammable if you spring a leak somewhere. There were more reasons too, but meh seems like some damn good reasons there .. be worth my time following up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 toluene? bit hard on shit though/eats everything. avgas cos it smells good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock-Lee Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Pure oxygen is illegal to store in a vehicle AFAIK. You will not be able to use it on the road or any race track. /boom headshot etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Motec is the only thing that will do 16+ sequential injectors and for the what you are after it will cost more than 8k I would say. As above regarding the oxygen, even more problems driving around in a car with acetylene or hydrogen in it So your only option for a gas injection is NO2 really You seem to be over complicating this? if you cant afford a motec running a secondary high octane fuel in full sequential will be out of the question. It would be a prick to tune, let alone the over complication of having 2 fuel systems Your request of running up to 800hp and 500hp would be doable on 98 with a new link. This assumes your engine is built up to this level, your turbo is sized right etc etc. As for 1500hp bursts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 little bit off topic, dont know if anyone has seen this http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1575817 whats the engine in question anyway???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRFVDR Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The reason why they use NO2 instead of O2 is because of the safety factor,NO2 is just as much of an oxidiser as O2 but way safer for transport/useage, where as O2 is a bomb just waiting to go off sounds interesting Also have you thought of injecting LPG as a Liquid as it will cool the intake charge and also give u a boost in fuel/octane.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Whats the car for is the question? theres allot better way to deal with more boost that adding a heavy and expensive LPG system to your car. 98 and a well setup system will get it a UZ up to and beyond 500hp I understand you are just brain storming but this is for your UZ capri then you have allot to think about before you get this far. My friend bought a well known JZX90 that had a single turbo UZ conversion putting out around 450hp, it has gone through half a doxen W55/7/8 boxes and now has a R154. What internals does the engine have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpr Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You seem to be over complicating this? +1 what are you trying to achieve with the car, other than a shitload of power ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 little bit off topic, dont know if anyone has seen thishttp://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1575817 whats the engine in question anyway???? Mind = blown That is fucked. Why use a 4G63 as the basis though? Surely a 4AGE would have been a better candidate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 little bit off topic, dont know if anyone has seen thishttp://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1575817 whats the engine in question anyway???? Mind = blown That is fucked. Why use a 4G63 as the basis though? Surely a 4AGE would have been a better candidate? There is already a thread about this somewhere, basically they are customer cars with $$, keen on some beryllium valve seats and a titanium cam for the buick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 acetylene or hydrogen? it wouldn't be "engine knock" anymore it would be "engine explode" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaN Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 really enjoy thinking complex things through if only for the sake of exercising the mind and running and idea though. I like to think others are the same but I get the feeling I've been mistaken for a dreamer, not so, .. just a thinker Just having a think, and getting a feel for others ideas, 1500hp is completely possible from a 1uz-fe spence, would need to be a twin turbo set up though (spool/driveability). I know one that hit 2000hp, and another thats making 1200 + with plenty of room for development. Quite a few have hit 1000hp. 98 is a good idea, it had of course occurred to me, still like the idea of duel fuel system though, but it seems pointless if the solution is run 98 and watersprayers / water injection. Let's not worry about the gearbox I can always find a solution to that, theres a number of box's which will hold down 800hp+ not all are manuals, even a couple of tiptronics on the market too. The diff is actually my biggest concern. The toyota 8" wont take this kind of power, but I'll set it up anyway and do a good job with the shell side of the install so it can take bigger power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaN Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Look at it like this, .. if petrol fuels were suddenly not available, .. what would you want to use in a engine like this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 1500hp is completely possible from a 1uz-fe spence, would need to be a twin turbo set up though (spool/driveability). I know one that hit 2000hp, and another thats making 1200 + with plenty of room for development. Quite a few have hit 1000hp. I never said it wasn't, but its one hell of a engine/tune/setup to get those numbers . The block becomes the weak point on a UZ pretty quick when you get up to these levels, I know the Aussies running in supercharged altered went to billet block after cracking several blocks (they even broke 2UZ iron blocks) around the 1200hp mark. I would like to see a stock alloy block make 2000hp for very long. What internals are you using? 98 is a good idea, it had of course occurred to me, still like the idea of duel fuel system though, but it seems pointless if the solution is run 98 and watersprayers / water injection. The dual fuel thing annoys me, why would you add extra weight and complexity to the car for fuck all. There are turbo cars that can drive to the drag strip rattle off a 10 and drive home all on 98, do you think they want another tune so they can run 91 on the way home? or 80kg's of LPG tank in the boot? Possibly a tank of higher octane for race day is all you should be worrying about Methanol is a great substance and I would run it in anything in a heartbeat , but it super impractical to run on the road. You could run a dual meth petrol setup, i would only advise it if you were seriously into drag racing the thing Water sprays and injection work, but again i wouldn't bother, they are more like band aids Again what are you going to do with this 800hp capri? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Just smack a turbo on it man. Preferably hanging out the bonnet. 7SSuFdDrHnk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What about running only E85 ethanol mix? You can get sensors for the fuel rail that detect the exact mix of ethanol instantaneously and adjust settings to suit - E85 can fluctuate quite a bit on the exact mix of ethanol:petrol. It would be difficult to tune though, especially for high HP, as I imagine you would need to tune for every fuel percentage possible. Anyway, aiming for a horse power figure is pretty stupid. Its just a number and it will end up with you chasing your tail and eventually quoting 600hp at the wheels as 1500hp at the flywheel because of drive train lossess etc I would think you'd be best to just take it step by step. Get the car completed and on the road, then start mucking around with fueling and tuning. It's cool to come up with ideas and throw them around for discussion, but with a car in the shed in pieces and no money, talk of 1500hp is just a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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